Can't cope with DS being transgender

[YellowBrickWall]

This is so hard. I feel like I'm in a very weird place. I am absolutely gutted and just want it to not be happening. He is 23 and lives with us. I thought we had escaped this trend but he's got caught up in it. I don't know what to do.

It's hard to describe but I simply cannot go along with it. It's not true, he's not a woman, he never will be. I hate the gaslighting, it's so distressing. This is upsetting me so much but I don't know what to do.

He's an adult and can do what he wants but unfortunately this particular thing requires my involvement and I can't. I am totally against it. There seems to be no middle ground, I either go against everything I know and believe or I won't be involved in his life. It feels like blackmail. It feels shit. I hate it.

“From the second they are born our children have the right to live their own lives. Some people have more trouble understanding that concept than others.”

I don’t disagree @crumpetswithjam - they are totally their own person straight out of the womb. It still doesn’t mean they can change sex or rewrite the history of the woman who gave birth to them. Or coerce her into living a lie.

From the second they are born our children have the right to live their own lives. Some people have more trouble understanding that concept than others.

More meaningless babble! In what sense does a newborn have any right to liuve their own life? Or a five year old, ten year old, fifteen year old? What does that even mean? Nothing, it means nothing.

In any case, no-one has the right to believe they can change sex and force everyone else to join in and affirm their delusion.

Why is it that those who insist everyone must be supported and affirmed and has a right to respect and confirmation never think those same things should be extended to everyone else? Such as the OP, for one.

I'm really surprised that you would feel strongly enough about this that you would sacrifice your relationship with him over it. To be perfectly honest, I can't help but feel that you've also been a bit brainwashed by the GC movement. It's fine to not believe it's possible to change sex. It's fine to not accept in your own mind that your son is a woman. But you're prepared to go as far as to lose him because you won't use his preferred name and pronouns? I'm sorry it's just batshit crazy if you ask me.

I think this is partly an issue of cross-generational differences in world view. You think he and everyone who is of the TWAW mindset has been brainwashed/is intellectually deficient/gaslighting/whatever. They see you and the GC movement as the equivalent to how you may have viewed prejudices against homosexuality amongst the generation above you. No I'm not comparing being trans to being gay. I'm just saying that the two generations see the world through a different lens, and there's no easy way to reconcile the two world views. Certainly you refusing to shift from 'he' to 'she' is not going to make a difference.

You gain nothing by continuing to refuse to alter your language to make your son feel supported, and you lose a lot. You won't change his mind about who he is. You won't change anyone's mind.

Many years from now, on your deathbed, would you rather have both of your children by your side, or would you prefer to be able to say to your daughter 'well its a shame that Simon isn't here but at least I kept to my principles and refused to call him Simone'?

You think he and everyone who is of the TWAW mindset has been brainwashed/is intellectually deficient/gaslighting/whatever

She doesn't think it, she knows it. And so do you. Because you know as well as I do that TW are NOT W. You know it, I know it, they know it really.

I'm pretty sure you also know that there is a lot more to it than not calling her son she. That's not even a tiny fraction of what she is expected to do and say and think and feel, all against her own instincts and her own knowledge in reality.

It's not a generational thing at all. There are vast swathes of the same generation that don't go alomg with any of this nonsense.

no-one has the right to believe they can change sex and force everyone else to join in and affirm their delusion.

That's not correct though, is it @TheGoodFighter? They do have the right, by law.

I am so sorry you are going through this @YellowBrickWall but I wanted to say I do appreciate you articulating your thoughts so well.

I entirely agree with you. I fully support the right for people to live as they feel they should provided it is not at the detriment of others.

I cannot wrap my head around the pretending that the previous part of your life didn't exist. I don't understand how TWAW actually supports those going through this. Shouldn't we be open about the journey, that they are trans women. That the experience is different to that of someone born female (hate that phrase but using for clarity).

Shouldn't we celebrate the men brave enough to wear female clothing or break the stereotypes.

If I were to decide tomorrow I was a BAME woman because I 'felt it' it would be completely inappropriate for very obvious reasons.

Just wanted to say that entirety reasoned debate like yours should not be shut down and I agree that's not the world I can support

I don't see anything else that she is required to do other than to outwardly refer to her son as a she (or they or whatever). She herself expressed concerns that he would expect her to destroy childhood photos etc but as far as we know that's not happened.

It is a generational issue in that boomers/gen x/millennials are probably more likely to be GC than gen Z. However it's kind of beside the point I was trying to make really which is that you have opposing views on this - group A think group B are deluded and brainwashed and group B think group A are intolerant, old-fashioned, conservative, unenlightened. Those two opposing views are not going to shift because OP won't refer to her son as a she. Nothing good will be achieved by her sticking to her guns on this particular point but a lot will be lost.

No, old age being estranged from your children can be very very sad. Op, I would think carefully about posters advocating for you not to prioritize a reconciliation. Easy to be gung ho when it's not your loss. They will not be the ones without a relationship with their child. It's easy to talk.

I'm sorry I totally agree with this.
He knows how you feel about this issue and you don't believe people can change sex ( nor do I) and that you won't be changing your mind on that but I'd call my son anything he wanted me to do so I didn't lose him.
He will still know what your feelings are on the issue , would this part compromise have killed you in order to show him how important he is you. ( differing beliefs aside)

I hope you don't end up regretting your very hardline stance.

OP, I read your thread back in March, and felt for you deeply. Your compassion, lack of bigotry, intellect, respect, honesty, and love, shone through. I don't have an easy answer to offer. Early adulthood is a continuation of adolescent figuring out of one's identity. But in these times, there's a lot at stake, and difficult-to-reverse decisions can be made.

There are certainly people who've felt that they're the opposite sex since they were small children, and I instinctively feel more supportive of their need to transition, but I worry about the people who come to the conclusion only later that they're actually male-not-female or female-not-male.

Just wanted to express support, anyway. My own children are still very young so I'm in a different position, but my husband is increasingly exploring a trans identity and it's been tricky even though I - like you - am definitely not some foaming-at-the-mouth bigot.

I'm so sorry that you weren't included in the wedding.

I don't see anything else that she is required to do other than to outwardly refer to her son as a she (or they or whatever)

Then you're wilfully not looking, and hyou're not really qualified to offer an opinion,

Anyone who thinks its simply a matter of using a different name and she instead of he doesn't understand the first thing about any of this.

'Thought he escaped this trend', sounds like you were already aware and ignored it to spare your own feelings. My child is trans from 16yrs old now 22. My only priority has always been to protect and guide my children no matter what. My child will go on to have a job family drive a car etc... like everyone else, being a happy human with family who love them. Reading your post is shameful. All about you, how you feel. I use to come home from work not knowing if they would be alive as the mental torture for them was unbearable.

You're super patronising and very angry.

I notice no one is suggesting that your son is risking his relationship with his mum over something as minor as a name and pronoun change.

As minor? Whether you agree with it or not, this is not a minor life change. You can be encourage the op to be facetious, 'right' and miserable...or see if there's a way she can actually know her son.

Of course, she's angry. If you're not angry about gender ideology you haven't been paying attention.

You basically came on the thread to tell all the oldies to get with the times and join in with the TWAW mantras. You don't believe that any more than GC people do, you just lie and pretend to be kind.

All GC means is you can't change sex and sometimes a person's sex matters. That's it. What is brainwashed about that?

Have you ever thought young people have actually been brainwashed?

It's in primary schools, secondary schools and universities and pushed by people like you saying to just go along with it to keep the peace. Thinking it's kind to lie and ignore any downsides.

It's ridiculous.

Whatever your views on trans, I couldn't fathom ending my relationship with my son to demonstrate my beliefs.

At this point even if it is a "trend" and he abandons the process, the relationship probably won't recover as he won't want to hear the "I told you so".

I feel that a lot of the arguments against trans were used against gay people years ago; people's beliefs held them back from accepting their own children's lifestyles. Such a waste of life with just their principles for company.

GC arguments are not against trans. That's TRA hyperbole. They're against saying that a transwoman is no different from a woman. It says that sometimes biology matters. That's all.

GI does damage to people. Parents across the globe struggle to accept their children's lifestyles when they do damage to others. Completely different from homophobia because being gay harms no one.

Completely different from homophobia because being gay harms no one

But there was a time when people thought that being gay harmed society; it was literally illegal.

Family was the fabric of society. Marriage was the basis for family and family could only be created by a man and a woman.

Gay parents, particularly two men, are not universally accepted. Men objecting to gay men sharing changing rooms was seen as a legitimate concern. The US military had a Don't Ask Don't Tell policy even after homosexuality was legalised.

Time and gay rights campaigns changed those opinions. I can't say that a similar thing won't happen with the trans argument.

I was so upset about not being allowed to go to his wedding. I have cried buckets over this.

We haven't fallen out, we haven't had a row, he hasn't been disowned or anything remotely like that. We're still looking after his cat for him. I even said that I would use their new names and pronouns for the day but he said that wasn't good enough and people would be offended by me just being there.

I'm not worried about old age as I'm not relying on my kids to look after me or anything. I wouldn't want to burden them. I have friends, siblings, cousins, DH, SIL, nieces, nephews, lots of family, I'm sure I'll be fine.

To the original poster. You brought a soul into this world. When you carried them in your belly, you might have prayed that they'd be safe and happy. I'm sure you never prayed that they would think and behave exactly as you do. You raised a soul who has decided to change their outward appearance to match how they feel on the inside. This is a beautiful thing and you can help make it so if you just ask yourself "Am I willing to lose the beautiful soul, for whom I carried and cared for so long, for no good reason? Because of what the neighbours might think?"

Well actually, I carried him in my womb but, biology aside, I don't give a stuff what the neighbours think, I can assure you.

I have no problem with him changing his outward appearance. In fact, I asked why can't he be a feminine man, why does he think he must be a woman. He could not answer this. Honestly, it was clear when speaking with him that he really hadn't thought of any of this in any depth and it's so frustrating to not be able to understand him.

If he wants me to ignore reality, throw away my rights and go against everything I previously knew and believed, then I think it's incumbent on him to give me good reasons to do this. If he can't, I wonder how he makes sense of this in his own mind.

I think you have to mourn the loss of your "son" and try to find a way to celebrate your child's choice and happiness. That includes respecting how your child wants to be addressed. It's the only way forward.

Didnt want to read and run. So sorry about the wedding. Very sad turn of events.

He reminds me of a friend of mine, who is also bi and a cross dresser. He has discussed with me about wanting to maybe ‘try being a woman’. Thankfully we have enough of a long standing and honest relationship that I could honestly tell him that wouldn’t make him a woman. At best that would make him a trans women.

Deep down we all know it’s a kink, he does too although hasn’t said so directly. I do know this for sure because we have known each other for a long time. He absolutely does not have bodily dysphoria when it comes to his genitals and I do know that 100% as we had a sexual relationship for a while late teens. Part of me think part of the attraction to this is the taboo. He has always enjoyed living on the edges. Once left home to live in the nearby woods for a few weeks. Used to walk around town with no shoes for a while - that type of thing. He’s certainly an entertaining character and we all enjoy his company.

Thankfully our friends are all young enough to still be reasonably ‘hip’ and old enough to not have been part of this phase. Everyone has shared similar sentiments that he should do absolutely anything which makes him happy. But that’s all on him - not anyone else.

And unrelated to the trans topic we have a mutual friend who changed their name by deed poll. From generic to generic - not like they had a terrible name. They use it daily for work and for new people they meet. But over half a decade later and he is still the original name to our friend group. We tried, we all did. But he’s his name to us. He always will be and he doesn’t mind that. In a way it’s due to how much we all love him dearly that’s it’s difficult to reset that. If he was an acquaintance where we had to physically recollect the name in memory it would be easier, but it’s not. It’s automatic. As I am sure you know.

He’s still so young. Whilst he might have now gone to far down the rabbit hole to ever return he might mature into understanding and accepting your position also. Take care OP. 💐

Wow, you are brilliant OP. Well said.
I have no helpful advice, only, don't ever lose yourself in this.