Can't cope with DS being transgender

[YellowBrickWall]

This is so hard. I feel like I'm in a very weird place. I am absolutely gutted and just want it to not be happening. He is 23 and lives with us. I thought we had escaped this trend but he's got caught up in it. I don't know what to do.

It's hard to describe but I simply cannot go along with it. It's not true, he's not a woman, he never will be. I hate the gaslighting, it's so distressing. This is upsetting me so much but I don't know what to do.

He's an adult and can do what he wants but unfortunately this particular thing requires my involvement and I can't. I am totally against it. There seems to be no middle ground, I either go against everything I know and believe or I won't be involved in his life. It feels like blackmail. It feels shit. I hate it.

check out who you're aligned with

It's a good marketing strategy isn't it. It requires no independent research or critical thinking.

In very simple terms, it puts all pro trans ideology on the 'good' side and all pro women's rights on the 'bad' side.

Then even if you are a good person, an intelligent person, a liberal, a philanthropist, you can be deemed very bad indeed.

People used to point and scream witch - now they point and scream transphobe.

This is exactly what these puppet masters want - women silencing women. Mumsnet is deemed transphobic because it allows women to share their concerns. Ten years ago they were probably the only place that did allow it x

I think my advice to OP was extremely measured, given my own beliefs about gender identity ideology. I can imagine how painful it must be for both of them, and her feelings must be respected in this too. There needs to be a middle ground with any compromises. I hope her son seeks help for his mental health issues, which predate him expressing a wish to be considered as a woman, and it may be that his feelings will change. I second the suggestion of the Bayswater support group, this must feel very lonely IRL.

bayswatersupport.org.uk/

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie

But if his current gender dysphoria is a manifestation of his mental health issues then surely it would be remiss of his mother to support him in becoming his “essential self”.

As a parent we do not have to do everything our children would like us to do. It’s actually very good parenting to not do that!

@LuckySantangelo35

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Although yes, some help for the mental health issues separate to the trans issue, I'm sure we'd both agree would be a good thing.

@Tuaca

You do you, I think most people eventually work out how sexist this is.

I'm quite sure you believe this but that's only because you spend so much time on MN. The rest of the world don't think like this. Well maybe The Daily Mail, Piers Morgan and other hateful people do, check out who you're aligned with

Do you really think the rest of the world believes in this? Or are you only looking at the very white and privileged parts?

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie
“We’ll have to agree to disagree”
What, you mean you do do whatever your adult dc want you to do? Always? I can’t believe we disagree on that

That's not at all what I said, and you know it.

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie

Err yes it is what you said. You talked about loss etc if Op doesn’t conform to what her son wants.

[quote PomRuns]@YellowBrickWall your posts are brilliant. You come across as a really lovely person.

Why do woman who identify as women now need to be called cis?? I’m a woman - I don’t need a prefix.[/quote]
Agree!

Unless you find yourself in the position of having a trans child, you just can't imagine what fears of loss you might have. I'm not playing, 'Oh yes you did' with you.

@Tuaca

You do you, I think most people eventually work out how sexist this is.

I'm quite sure you believe this but that's only because you spend so much time on MN. The rest of the world don't think like this. Well maybe The Daily Mail, Piers Morgan and other hateful people do, check out who you're aligned with

Such a specious argument. There are TRAs threatening rape and physical violence to people who don't find their arguments convincing. Why don't you check out who you're aligned with FFS.

Agree completely. The only changes needed are about making sure all women are safe.

Not at all and I'd like you to quote something which actually shows that. There are female-segregated spaces. Men are trying to get into them. Saying no to that does not mean there is no recognition of the need for men to also be protected from other men's violence. If you want to campaign for mixed sex spaces go ahead. If you want to campaign for the complete obliteration of female-only spaces, go ahead. Don't pretend that men are women in order to sneak them into female spaces though and don't pretend that this does not cause more risk for women.

Most people are able to hold more than one need in mind. IMHO we need to keep female-only spaces and we also need to look at why trans women are not safe in the spaces allocated to them - men's spaces and properly do something about it. Men (transwomen) forcing their way into women's spaces does nothing for the PR which might be needed for people to start to actually accept that some men want to wear dresses, high heels, make-up - whatever else they think fits with their individual internalised belief about what people who 'feel like women' want to do as it paints them as narcissistic aggressors.

LiesDoNotBecomeUs

“He will be a trans-woman, not a woman.
Biology will prevent the latter no matter what he does.”

Absolutely. And that’s the long and short of it really.

Someone upthread spoke about prevalence in autistic girls of sudden onset gender dysphoria.

My pre-teen daughter is autistic and doesn't conform to gender stereotypes. For now she says she is a girl. I think sensory issues play a large part. Sensory Processing Disorder is co-morbid with autism, put simply my daughter can't tolerate the feel of many things. Boys clothes tend to be more comfortable to wear, she now exclusively wears boys clothes. Have you tried shopping for a pre-teen girl? Most clothes have frills or are cut short or are tight. Same for makeup , the feel of make up would be intolerable for her. She can't bear hair cuts, she keeps her hair long but a lot of girls with SPD opt for short hair cuts as brushing hair/ washing hair is an issue. So in a society which tells girls they must conform with stereotypes it is easy to see how girls who dress like boys are told they are girls.

Add to that the difficulties with social communication. My daughter does not engage with things that girls like to engage with. She doesn't see the point in chit chat, doesn't have any interest in fashion or relationships. She prefers playing Minecraft and fortnight , is obsessed with Marvel and plays cricket.

She is highly empathatic, so 'be kind' is the only way.

It is very easy to see her being vulnerable to being told that these things mean that she must be non-binary or be a trans boy.

Then when we look at autism services and mental health services which are barely existent the ability to say well if 'I 'transition' I will belong and this will fix my issues.'

I find it upsetting when I see posts of parents of autistic children saying their children are trans without question. Anyone who questions the ideology and that it could be harmful to children and it has a disproportionate impact on autistic girls get vilified and removed from groups. The National Autistic Society also appear to be supportive of the Stonewall/ Mermaids approach of affirmation.

OP I am sorry that you are going through this. I am also sorry you have been subject to posts implying you are letting your son down.

I think that’s the bit that gets me as well. The posts implying that Op is letting her son down, not being a good supportive mother etc just because she having the gumption to question this and isn’t falling over herself to say she has a daughter now, call him by a different name, use different pronouns, erase the last 23 years, etc.

By not doing these things she is being a good mum, not a bad one!

Honestly with some poster I think if their offspring commanded they jump off a cliff they would do so unquestioningly because they are your CHILDREN! They didn’t ask to be born, you put them first etc, that’s just what mothers do

@lifeturnsonadime

Someone upthread spoke about prevalence in autistic girls of sudden onset gender dysphoria.

My pre-teen daughter is autistic and doesn't conform to gender stereotypes. For now she says she is a girl. I think sensory issues play a large part. Sensory Processing Disorder is co-morbid with autism, put simply my daughter can't tolerate the feel of many things. Boys clothes tend to be more comfortable to wear, she now exclusively wears boys clothes. Have you tried shopping for a pre-teen girl? Most clothes have frills or are cut short or are tight. Same for makeup , the feel of make up would be intolerable for her. She can't bear hair cuts, she keeps her hair long but a lot of girls with SPD opt for short hair cuts as brushing hair/ washing hair is an issue. So in a society which tells girls they must conform with stereotypes it is easy to see how girls who dress like boys are told they are girls.

Add to that the difficulties with social communication. My daughter does not engage with things that girls like to engage with. She doesn't see the point in chit chat, doesn't have any interest in fashion or relationships. She prefers playing Minecraft and fortnight , is obsessed with Marvel and plays cricket.

She is highly empathatic, so 'be kind' is the only way.

It is very easy to see her being vulnerable to being told that these things mean that she must be non-binary or be a trans boy.

Then when we look at autism services and mental health services which are barely existent the ability to say well if 'I 'transition' I will belong and this will fix my issues.'

I find it upsetting when I see posts of parents of autistic children saying their children are trans without question. Anyone who questions the ideology and that it could be harmful to children and it has a disproportionate impact on autistic girls get vilified and removed from groups. The National Autistic Society also appear to be supportive of the Stonewall/ Mermaids approach of affirmation.

OP I am sorry that you are going through this. I am also sorry you have been subject to posts implying you are letting your son down.

It was me who spoke of it. I have an autistic dd too and can relate to all you've posted. Puberty was a real flash point - having to deal with periods and changing bodies etc. so be on your guard at that time.

Imagine a vulnerable autistic girl or one whose parents have swallowed the ideology or even just aren't very well informed and think they're doing the right thing. Imagine them being told that they could just start taking medication which would avoid all the messy, dreaded period business and that they could be boys and never have to deal with this stuff at all. I'm about 90% sure my dd would have taken it if it was offered and I had encouraged it. I find that terrifying and enraging in equal measure but as we've seen none of the supporters will address this, even after being told that autistic girls are massively over represented in the already huge rise in children transitioning. Collateral damage I guess. I've brought this up with well know trans activists on platforms such as twitter and suddenly their friends appear and they viciously shut down the discussion. I've had to lock my account j occasion. They know this cannot be explained away or dismissed and they're terrified of it and as we see on here, none of the "you're all so mean and bigoted!" crew will address it either.

Any other condition showing these rates of increase in such a short space of time would trigger urgent investigations and reviews. Not trans though, they just get shoved down that conveyer belt and anyone who express any concern is told they're a disgusting bigot and shut down ruthlessly. I cannot fathom how people who support life long paths of untested medication regimes and painful, high failure rates of surgery on healthy bodies, because "my kid is trans/has a trans friend and you want to put them in the mens toilet you hater!" can so purposely turn their faces away from these issues. It is beyond my comprehension.

@LuckySantangelo35

I think that’s the bit that gets me as well. The posts implying that Op is letting her son down, not being a good supportive mother etc just because she having the gumption to question this and isn’t falling over herself to say she has a daughter now, call him by a different name, use different pronouns, erase the last 23 years, etc.

By not doing these things she is being a good mum, not a bad one!

Honestly with some poster I think if their offspring commanded they jump off a cliff they would do so unquestioningly because they are your CHILDREN! They didn’t ask to be born, you put them first etc, that’s just what mothers do

It's depressing but not surprising because the movement and its supporters rely on manipulation and twisting facts.

It was me who spoke of it. I have an autistic dd too and can relate to all you've posted. Puberty was a real flash point - having to deal with periods and changing bodies etc. so be on your guard at that time.

Yes this is where we are at the moment. Her body is changing.

She doesn't want to think about bra's , she will need one though. I've had to give her a box with sanitary products in as I know she will struggle with that.

I cannot fathom how people who support life long paths of untested medication regimes and painful, high failure rates of surgery on healthy bodies, because "my kid is trans/has a trans friend and you want to put them in the mens toilet you hater!

I have found this more in the parents of pre pubescent boys who are saying they are girls. Their sympathy for their boys as they grow appears to outweigh the fact that autistic girls are being put on a pathway that leads to sterilisation & mastectomy.

It's an absolute scandal.

I've been removed from a number of online autism groups for suggesting that parents exercise caution.

I agree, @LuckySantangelo35! Motherhood does not mean you give over to everything that comes out of their mouths and heads. OP, you deserve to be happy and have peace in your home. Your adult child is very, very lucky. OK, get him the help he needs for his mental health--get past that, and then it's up to him to make something of his life. It's not on you.

@Porcupineintherough

The more you post OP the less convincing you sound. Do you really have a trans child or is is this yet another of those awareness raising threads?

You want me to post a photograph of him? (No I won't do that).

I have been a big supporter of women's rights. It's important to me. As important as faith is to some people. I am tolerant, I work, I provide, I live my life respectful of others. Basically I'm just getting on with it like most of us are.

I raised my son in a similar way. We didn't enforce gender stereotypes, we just lived our lives being respectful of others and abiding by our own beliefs and principles. He had a good schooling at a local comp, went to university and stayed in halls, then in shared house.

He met his girlfriend and they rented a flat, with my help and support. She lives abroad so they are now having a long distance relationship, visiting each other when they can. A few years ago when something came up in conversation he made a throwaway comment, oh yeah I'm bisexual. I said ok and that was that.

He went through covid lockdown on his own in his flat and I think that might be when his MH problems started.

He has limited contact with friends, mostly online. He wants to be part of the queer community and live in Brighton. He says that his girlfriend is exploring her gender identity and might be non binary but is currently pan sexual.

During his time away he became more distant to all family which I had no problem with. Young adults need to distance from their parents, cut the apron strings and go live their lives. He said he always knew we were there for him but was also conscious of stepping back a bit. Fine, no problem with that, it's natural.

But I think he was trying to find out where he fits as an independent adult and unfortunately this has coincided with a massive increase in children and young adults adopting the transgender ideology. So much so that everyone was affirming and de-platforming anyone who said otherwise. Especially at university. I honestly think he has got caught up in this and latched on to it as his tribe. Fine. That is also fine with me.

What I am not fine with is him coming in my home and telling me what to think and what to say.

I am a mature woman with life experience. He is a young adult with very limited experience. I am trying to untangle all of this so that we can live together with mutual care and respect.

Does that explain it enough for you?

@DrSbaitso
Links:
cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/ - link for pdf report at bottom of page

Sweden - press release. Link to full report at bottom of page. Focus with this report is under 18s, but likely to have knock-on effects for young adults, 18-25:
www.socialstyrelsen.se/om-socialstyrelsen/pressrum/press/uppdaterade-rekommendationer-for-hormonbehandling-vid-konsdysfori-hos-unga/ The press release at least was accessible in English, but doesn’t seem to be there now. SEGM may have a view of the report:
segm.org/segm-summary-sweden-prioritizes-therapy-curbs-hormones-for-gender-dysphoric-youth

France:
www.academie-medecine.fr/la-medecine-face-a-la-transidentite-de-genre-chez-les-enfants-et-les-adolescents/?lang=en

Distinction is made for young people who have experience of long-term gender incongruence pre-pubescence, compared with the current huge rise in children and young adults presenting at or post puberty.

@YellowBrickWall

It makes perfect sense what you’re saying OP

because no one who isn’t trans would choose to use a gender neutral space would they?

Surely every woman that gushes that they have no problem with males in female spaces would be more than happy to use them right?

Not 'gender neutral' it's mixed sex.
Using cutesy euphemisms obscures the truth.
Besides, women's toilets are already gender neutral. The only requirement is being female. Personal presentation is irrelevant.

The issue is that we can't just allow some males in, we would have to allow ALL men in. Completely removing OUR right to any single sex spaces or services.

You might have lovely harmless male friend who 'just wants to pee', but just because a few males are apparently too 'vulnerable' to use mens spaces, (no evidence of this) they do not get to take our safe places away.

Women and children being put at greater risk by having their spaces made mixed sex, which is PROVEN to be more dangerous to females , just to provide validation for male identities, is unacceptable.

Stop pretending that this group of males are more at risk than women, and that all men who claim to be women are harmless.

Basic safeguarding. The rules that apply to all other men must still apply to them, because saying 'I'm a woman' doesn't change their sex.