Can't cope with DS being transgender

[YellowBrickWall]

This is so hard. I feel like I'm in a very weird place. I am absolutely gutted and just want it to not be happening. He is 23 and lives with us. I thought we had escaped this trend but he's got caught up in it. I don't know what to do.

It's hard to describe but I simply cannot go along with it. It's not true, he's not a woman, he never will be. I hate the gaslighting, it's so distressing. This is upsetting me so much but I don't know what to do.

He's an adult and can do what he wants but unfortunately this particular thing requires my involvement and I can't. I am totally against it. There seems to be no middle ground, I either go against everything I know and believe or I won't be involved in his life. It feels like blackmail. It feels shit. I hate it.

The distress I feel is the clash between what I believe and what he wants me to say. I hate compelled speech. I hate being drawn into this. I hate feeling like I'm the only one who can see the emperer is not wearing any clothes. I feel like I'm going mad

The emperor is naked - I see it too. +We are not alone; Mumsnet eyes are sharp and clear.

Your posts show you to be a good mother and a woman of integrity.

Both your DCs are lucky to have someone so grounded beside them.

Your son can follow the trend - be a trans woman (not a woman). He can try out this identity and carry on getting better but he knows that he can't change everyone else. There are real boundaries here. Boundaries are good when things are uncertain.

The world carries on being round despite the flat-earth society. The truth is out there.

@Feelingoktoday

“Yes your mental health is important too, but not as important as the right of your adult son to live the way he wants to”

Why is the OPs mental health not as important as her son saying he is a transgender woman?

@Feelingoktoday This is what I don’t get either. Why is OP’s mental health not as important as her sons?! So many people on here are saying it’s not

@HeDidWhattt

My 11 year old child told me last year she was a lesbian….she’s now 12 and has a boyfriend. It was just a phase and like you say, a trend. It will pass if there isn’t ever been any mention of him having problems in the past, which you said he hasn’t, so it’s likely this will pass.

Um ouch. This is not the same thing.

Poor boy🙄

Bigger question is what’s this ‘poor girl’ silliness? This is a 23 year old. I had four kids and my own place at that age. I’m only a few years older than that now.

I guess I didn’t have the luxury to be a poor little girl way into my twenties though since I had responsibilities. But I don’t know why any 23 year old (especially one with a penis) would be considered a ‘girl.’

But I hope you find a solution op. It does sound like your son has other, wider issues. Personally I think people do suffer massively when they’re not working and busy - that’s not me saying they’re lazy or anything like that but I think a full and busy life is so important in maintaining a healthy mindset. I think sitting around your mum’s house all day every day with no job to go to, presumably with little money coming in and few prospects isn’t the best way of life for a 23 year old.

My younger sibling is trans, mum couldn't accept it, so now she just has one less child involved in her life. It's difficult. When you push too hard, you could change their minds I suppose, but you could also just push them away.

Same!

It seems clear to me from what you've written, OP, that the underlying issue is your ds's fragile mental health - the transition thing is just a symptom of that.

So I'd address the source not the symptom. Hug your ds, support him as he needs your support as his mum now more than ever, to address the mental health concerns.

Mental health issues don't come out of nowhere - what led to this period of poor mental health? What can you do to help resolve the underlying issues? As well as helping him get counselling for that (NOT for his supposed 'gender identity')?

Make it clear you love him and are there for him. On the trans issue, can't imagine you need to use any pronouns other than you or your when talking to him directly, so that's that's a red herring.

I follow lots of detransitioners on Twitter and so many have parents who refused to affirm them and that challenge (eventually) helped them to come out the other side. In all cases, they were grateful and apologetic to the parent who had held their ground. Changing sex is impossible. Good parents don't deny reality.

I'd also be really worried about their taking hormones. That on its own is going to seriously mess with their mental health AND their physical health. I'd share lots of resources about the huge health implications of taking cross sex hormones - from the perspective of a caring, worried parent.

I'd try to understand what they think they're 'getting' out of being trans, and do my best to provide that 110%. So if they want to be cool and have a great social life, I'd support them in this. If they wanted permission to wear gender non-confirming clothes I'd support them in this. If they wanted a way out of their depressing life, I'd support them in this.

But I'd make it clear that no-one can change sex and the solutions to their problems lie in reality not fantasy, and that I wouldn't and couldn't go along with a misogynist fantasy. But I'd say that while hugging them and making clear this came from a place of caring and love and not rejection.

My ds is gay & uses pronouns they/them. I had my suspicions that he was gay before he was 10, he was never a boyish child, he loved girly things, was never friends with boys & even now the majority of his friends are girls. He came out to me when he was 13, he was terrified that I would reject him for being gay, I told him I would love him whatever he was & that I would never see him as a label, he would always just be my ds. He is 18 now & hasn't changed one bit.

What's your point, @Nat6999?

The OP's son isn't gay and hasn't felt this way for years. Or was that your point?

I worked at a uni that was very left leaning and about a third of the students identified as something other than the binary. So many were non binary, agender, genderfluid, aliagender, genderqueer, two-spirit, gender-fluid, gender neutral, gendervoid etc.

It really is the new punk or emo or goth. A way to express yourself in a counter cultural way.

She sounds like a lovely brave lady. I would be so proud .

I was a goth at uni.

BUT being a goth etc never required you to take dangerous hormones or chop off healthy bits of your body or throw away your fertility and sexual functioning for life.

If it was just young people wanting to be a bit naughty it wouldn't be a big issue. It's the self-harming aspect that's the concern for young people.

More generally, it's the concern about the misogyny and homophobia implicit in the movement as well.

@ExcuseeeeMe

She sounds like a lovely brave lady. I would be so proud .

Yes, the OP does sound like a lovely, brave lady.

Who rally cares for her lovely son.

So it’s not a trend? What happens to the kids needing that kind of attention when it’s become so “normalized” that self I.d. is boring? This… This is what happens. They’re now identifying as animals.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10633955/amp/Brisbane-Girls-Grammar-School-students-identify-cats-raising-concerns-parents.html

@FelicityBeedle

Support her, it’s not difficult. You’ll lose your child if you don’t

This. And before you say 'it's not that simple'.. why isn't it?

Your daughter needs you right now, more than ever. Even if it was a 'phase', why would you not want to ride it out with her?!

xxyzz my point is that whatever your child is they are still your child & you should love & support them through everything.

@ldnirish and @Nat6999 - you two either haven’t RTFT or you have your own agenda. OP has clearly stated that she loves her child and has no intention of withdrawing her affection, etc. This person is not at risk of being evicted from home either. She genuinely does not believe that anyone - her son included - can simply choose to be a female, anymore than she can believe that she can fly or hurl a train up a tree. She does not believe that Self ID means that you are a woman.

[quote Fraaahnces]@ldnirish and @Nat6999 - you two either haven’t RTFT or you have your own agenda. OP has clearly stated that she loves her child and has no intention of withdrawing her affection, etc. This person is not at risk of being evicted from home either. She genuinely does not believe that anyone - her son included - can simply choose to be a female, anymore than she can believe that she can fly or hurl a train up a tree. She does not believe that Self ID means that you are a woman.[/quote]
the irony of telling @ldnirish and @Nat6999 that they "have their own agenda"
They're not the only ones!!

have you seen the hostility trans people face?

I haven't.

What I have seen is the hostility (and worse) levelled at anyone who questions why often depressed, autistic children and young people are declaring themselves to be trans.

@ExcuseeeeMe

She sounds like a lovely brave lady. I would be so proud .

Stunning and brave eh?

The Ops son does not sound brave. Not even a little bit. He sounds depressed and lost and is hoping that being somebody else will make him feel better.

This is exactly why transsexuals need - and used to have - an awful lot of therapy before transitioning. In the stupidity of pushing a non medical model, the 95% who would benefit from therapy and desist in their delusions are getting no support. Just so the 5% can feel stunning and brave.

@thatweirdhippygirl

I’m honestly interested to know what the mumsnet collective think of intersex conditions.

There’s a thread in AMA that’s quite old now, but still there, posted by a woman who’s intersex.

She has a vagina, breasts, female reproductive organs (I believe, I read it years ago), and also has XY chromosomes. I think she didn’t know she was biologically male until her periods didn’t start.

According to majority of these responses, she is male, should not use the womens bathrooms, and should just accept that people would refer to her as he/him, as you can not police peoples grammar, and are whatever biological sex your chromosomes say you are.

There's no such thing as intersex. That person has a difference of sexual development. Specifically, she has Swyer's syndrome. People with Swyer's syndrome are female. It's not about XX or XY or variants. It's about your reproductive sex class and which gametes that class is capable of producing.

We all start out on the female pathway (X chromosome) and then the Y chromosome, if present, should interrupt it. In the case pf Swyer's syndrome, the Y chromosome doesn't work, so the foetus continues along the female pathway. Without the second X chromosome, it can't complete the development, hence undeveloped ovaries, but these people are definitely of the reproductive sex class capable of producing ova, even if their DSD interferes with that capability. Not having functioning ovaries isn't a medical condition in a male body.

Once again: sex is about reproductive sex class capable of producing which gametes, not XX or XY. That is a misinformed way of viewing it.

Nobody on here would deny she's female. All DSDs occur along the male pathway or the female one. There are turnoffs on each pathway but there is no third pathway itself.

@thatweirdhippygirl

I’m honestly interested to know what the mumsnet collective think of intersex conditions.

There’s a thread in AMA that’s quite old now, but still there, posted by a woman who’s intersex.

She has a vagina, breasts, female reproductive organs (I believe, I read it years ago), and also has XY chromosomes. I think she didn’t know she was biologically male until her periods didn’t start.

According to majority of these responses, she is male, should not use the womens bathrooms, and should just accept that people would refer to her as he/him, as you can not police peoples grammar, and are whatever biological sex your chromosomes say you are.

“Intersex” conditions are disorders/differences in sexual development. They are not additional sexes, so “intersex” is a misleading term.

The existence of a tiny fraction of people with DSDs who also have ambiguous genitals, or are females with XY chromosomes, is not a “gotcha”. The vast, vast majority of trans people do not have a DSD, and do not have ambiguous genitals. DSDs are irrelevant when we’re discussing fully functional males in female spaces.

If trans people were appropriating a disability that they don’t have, that would be pretty low, don’t you think?

@thatweirdhippygirl

I’m honestly interested to know what the mumsnet collective think of intersex conditions.

There’s a thread in AMA that’s quite old now, but still there, posted by a woman who’s intersex.

She has a vagina, breasts, female reproductive organs (I believe, I read it years ago), and also has XY chromosomes. I think she didn’t know she was biologically male until her periods didn’t start.

According to majority of these responses, she is male, should not use the womens bathrooms, and should just accept that people would refer to her as he/him, as you can not police peoples grammar, and are whatever biological sex your chromosomes say you are.

I agree with the poster above.

Muddying the waters with people with DSD is not helpful.

The Ops son has no physical disorder. He is unhappy and at the moment he thinks that if he was a different person it would make his life better.

He needs medical treatment to manage his psychiatric issues. Once his depression has improved, and he can see a positive future ahead, it’s likely his delusions will also dissipate and he will recognise that his desire to become someone else was a symptom of wanting to run away from his existing life.

Sorry I agree with both the posters above!!