Page 12 | Can't cope with DS being transgender

Innocenta · 25/03/2022 17:20

@Millicent2022 Just out of interest, are you saying people can change biological sex?

DefiniteTortoise · 25/03/2022 17:20

You don't have to believe..you just have to love them

But in order to show you love them, you have to say words you believe to be utterly false every day. I couldn't do that for any length of time without my real feelings being evident. In the past I've tried to say what people want to hear and they always get angry at me for not pretending well enough. I'm not sure it's a workable long term strategy.

It sounds like a tough situation OP.

Original poster

YellowBrickWall · 25/03/2022 17:21

@speakout

It's about accepting what he believes. You don't need to agree- but you do need to respect his view.

For me it would be about listening, trying to understand, and accepting- you don't have to agree.

I have a hard time accepting the christian faith- and feel quite strongly about my atheist views.
However I have family members that are christian- I don't have to agree with their ideas to love them.

I do accept what he believes. It's him asking me to believe it too that is the problem. I don't. I can't.

I respect his beliefs. I just want him to respect mine too.

I do tell him that I love him. He knows that.

OP posts:

Millicent2022 · 25/03/2022 17:22

[quote Innocenta]@Millicent2022 Just out of interest, are you saying people can change biological sex? [/quote]
I don’t have a rigid belief system i apply to others

I think everyone should live their life as they want to

Original poster

YellowBrickWall · 25/03/2022 17:23

It must be possible for him to be a trans-women without stamping over women's rights or pretending he never had a past.

How?

OP posts:

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 25/03/2022 17:23

He will be a trans-woman, not a woman.

Biology will prevent the latter no matter what he does.

Innocenta · 25/03/2022 17:24

@Millicent2022 That's how I'd describe my attitude too, at least in part, but I think our responses to OP's situation are quite different. I was surprised by your "God" comment. I just mean at a purely literal level, do you think people can change biological sex? (Not talking about gender, here.)

Millicent2022 · 25/03/2022 17:25

@LiesDoNotBecomeUs

He will be a trans-woman, not a woman. Biology will prevent the latter no matter what he does.

So? I’m sure he realises that ffs

Lockheart · 25/03/2022 17:28

I think you could call your son by whatever name he chooses without compromising your beliefs. Calling a woman James or a man Amelia doesn't mean you have to believe they're the opposite sex. Names are often fluid or neutral.

I feel like neither of you are listening to each other and both are refusing to budge an inch.

mudgetastic · 25/03/2022 17:28

Very difficult situation OP, and your mention of his previous mental health problems are a big red flag for me - people think trans can solve problems but it just pushes them around 9 times out of 10

It's sounds like one of those situations where logic is irrelevant

An ideology that harms everyone by either enforcing acceptance of gender ( bad ) or forcing major biological changes to disguise sex ( harmful also )

Not RTFT but I'd be public ally questioning what my actual gender was - I mean if someone who believe in gender called me a woman ( with all the associated gender connotations) I'd get really upset

What does your child think your gender is and why? Can he call you father Tom and he or would he think that is disrespectful? Can he explain why that would be unacceptable? he is giving you a gender identity by his very self identification - do you personally accept that ?

Millicent2022 · 25/03/2022 17:28

[quote Innocenta]@Millicent2022 That's how I'd describe my attitude too, at least in part, but I think our responses to OP's situation are quite different. I was surprised by your "God" comment. I just mean at a purely literal level, do you think people can change biological sex? (Not talking about gender, here.) [/quote]
My God comment was referring to how judgemental the comment was

I don’t have an opinion about it. Why would I? I do think the gender someone feels doesn’t always match their physical body. Why would it always match 100% of the time ?

MysteriousMonkey · 25/03/2022 17:28

@YellowBrickWall

This is so hard. I feel like I'm in a very weird place. I am absolutely gutted and just want it to not be happening. He is 23 and lives with us. I thought we had escaped this trend but he's got caught up in it. I don't know what to do.

It's hard to describe but I simply cannot go along with it. It's not true, he's not a woman, he never will be. I hate the gaslighting, it's so distressing. This is upsetting me so much but I don't know what to do.

He's an adult and can do what he wants but unfortunately this particular thing requires my involvement and I can't. I am totally against it. There seems to be no middle ground, I either go against everything I know and believe or I won't be involved in his life. It feels like blackmail. It feels shit. I hate it.

Similar position here with teenager, it's awful. They told me 6ears ago but I thought it would pass and it hasn't. I really wouldn't care if I felt it was right for them but I don't, I feel other factors are making them think this is what they want. Can't tell you the tears I've cried about this. I can't give you any advice because I'm still struggling so much

LondonWolf · 25/03/2022 17:29

@Tuaca

I am glad you're not my mum. You didn't answer the question about whether you would feel the same if it was a daughter who was trans

Oh I can answer that for you if you like. I'd be equally as concerned. Anything that involves my child putting chemicals into their body that don't belong there and that can and do lead to infertility and loss of sexual function would worry me equally for either my son or my daughter. Also anything that involves perfectly healthy organs being chopped off or pretend, cosmetic genitals "grafted" on would be a big concern. Specifically for a daughter I would be worried about how they might shave all the flesh off one of her arms to create a pretend "penis", which she has to artificially inflate with a pump in order to be able to penetrate her future partners, not to mention her healthy breasts being removed and the constant pain of vaginal atrophy as caused by excess artificial testosterone in her body. Then for my son to be told he can have a "vagina" which would in fact be an open open wound, which he has to "dilate" in order to keep it open, for the rest his life. Also that particular surgery has a ridiculously high rate of complications and failure - up to 50% I believe. I can link some very distressing accounts if you'd like?

I do wonder when people advocate for this so carelessly, if they actually realise what it entails. A life time of being on life shortening medication and multiple painful surgeries. It's not all rainbows, glitter and "stunning and brave" I am afraid.

MissBPotter · 25/03/2022 17:31

I feel for you op, I think I would be the same (kids are younger). It just doesn’t make sense to me and it would be really difficult to accept. I guess you have to keep emphasizing that you love him and care for him but you’re really struggling with this.

LabMix · 25/03/2022 17:32

@Millicent2022 you don’t have an opinion on whether people can literally change their biological sex? suuuure. More like you KNOW that’s entirely impossible but you can’t bring yourself to admit it 🙄

Daffodilis · 25/03/2022 17:34

This is something that has scared me with my youngest son, as I wasn't sure how I'd support him properly. He came out as gay at 14, loves having his hair long, likes pink, loves his nail polish etc. We chat a lot about everything, one thing he said was he was sick of people thinking he wanted to be female because of what he chose to wear. He drew a self portrait of himself in feminate clothing, but with a bubble screaming "I'm a boy!".

Nc123 · 25/03/2022 17:34

[quote MuggleMadness]@Nc123

You just have to love your kid. That’s all you have to do. You don’t have to understand. You don’t have to go on trans rights parades. You just have to accept your child and love them as they are, for all they are. Use the pronouns. Use the name. Learn from them. Love them. It’s what they need from you and it’s all they need from you. If it turns out that they are, as you suggest “playing with gender expression” then perhaps it will pass, and your relationship will only be stronger for the love and acceptance you have shown

That's a lovely post. I mostly agree with you, except I disagree that she has to use the female pronouns or name.she can live her kid while still calling her kid his name & using his pronouns. Maybe he needs to accept that the woman who brought him up as her son, doesn't agree you can just choose to change sex.[/quote]
The thing is, she’s not accepting her kid’s truth if she isn’t accepting the pronouns and names.

Millicent2022 · 25/03/2022 17:35

[quote LabMix]@Millicent2022 you don’t have an opinion on whether people can literally change their biological sex? suuuure. More like you KNOW that’s entirely impossible but you can’t bring yourself to admit it 🙄[/quote]
Lol nope

I’m prob busier than you so don’t give it much thought !

Daffodilis · 25/03/2022 17:35

I'm sorry if that was inappropriate or anything here, would hate to offend anyone.

Nc123 · 25/03/2022 17:35

[quote Phobiaphobic]@Nc123 Trans people are NOT subject to more violence/murder in the UK. Stop gaslighting people.

Anyone interested in a truthful look at this can do so here: unherd.com/2022/01/the-truth-about-trans-murders/[/quote]
My source is the National Office of Statistics. Yours doesn’t look reliable.

MarshmallowSwede · 25/03/2022 17:35

Regardless of what people say, your parents don’t have to agree with accept everything you do. Your parents also don’t have to take on any belief and OP’s adult child can have his own beliefs.

That being said, OP does not have to validate his belief. If her son is trans then he can stand firm in that and validate himself.

That’s the issue here. You can’t force someone to accept a lie and validate your thoughts and feelings. He’s and adult and living in the real world and the public does not owe you to make you feel good about your feelings.

No one can validate you but you, and expecting and demanding that ppl believe and validate you shows that you don’t actually believe it yourself. Otherwise you wouldn’t demand outside validation.

This need for constant outside validation is extremely unhealthy and what’s driving a lot of you people today to be more anxious, depressed and all around unhappy in their lives.

They need to learn resilience and self love instead of demanding everyone around them fawn over them and telling them how special and unique they are.

You can love your children all while not agreeing with their behaviour. Being a parent doesn’t mean you have to accept many and everything your child believes. And you certainly don’t have to be blackmailed to lie and participate in being gaslit or else your adult child won’t talk to you.

Nc123 · 25/03/2022 17:39

[quote Jannt86]@Nc123 some people literally starve themselves to death for attention. I think what we need to do is focus on making as little a deal as possible of the gender identity and instead focus on any emotional distress/pschiatric issues the person has and don't give them the chance to be egocentric about it eg; yes it's NOT ok for someone to bully you or judge you for your identity but people DO have the right to their own opinion and throwing a hissy fit every time someone accidentally calls you the wrong pronoun, fkr example, is not acceptable because like for all of us the world doesn't revolve round you and your beliefs. It's a fine balance to strike. If I was the mum I'd make my opinions known but I WOULD agree to call them their chosen name and pronoun but I'd refuse to indulge in it any further. There isn't really a right answer though and it definitely isn't as black and white as you and some others make out[/quote]
I don’t agree that people starve themselves to death for attention.

For me, the red herring is the OP’s beliefs. It doesn’t matter whether she believes people can be trans or not. What matters is that her child is in distress and needs support, love and acceptance. So give them that.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 25/03/2022 17:43

The mh problems you mentioned have prob been part of feeling the discord in their own self and trying to conform

Or maybe the mental health issues come from their own cognitive dissonance, past trauma, or spending too much time online. Anything other than complete validation and capitulation from others would expose reality.

If your 'identity' relies on constant external validation, how are you being your 'true self'

LabMix · 25/03/2022 17:50

@Millicent2022 yes very busy, posting repeatedly on mumsnet. Go on, have a think about it. It doesn’t take much effort. Really think about it and then tell me if you think it’s possible to change your biological sex. Don’t want to? I wonder why 🤔

Thenose · 25/03/2022 17:52

"So your child, being treated for MH, has asked you to use a different name and you don’t want to because you don’t want to? If his name was Robert and he asked you to call him Bob would it bother you the same? I think you’re taking this very personally OP when it’s not about you, and risking alienating your already fragile DC."

Rubbish. The OPs son isn't asking her to call him by a different name variation; he's asking her to pretend he's female. The OP is honest and doesn't want to be manipulated into lying every day. It's normal for people with integrity to feel uncomfortable pretending something is true when it clearly isn't.