Ukraine-invasion-part-16

[PestorPeston]

Warsaw Russian is letting out a lot of smoke - there has been no decision on who among them will be the next pontiff.

Biden is going there Friday

Is Boris Johnson the designated survivor?

Who the heck let me be in charge?

Re the MIGs etc.

Does anyone know why Ukraine has so few?
If they had a good amount surely it would have been put to use early on wiping out convoys, helping to stop the shelling?
Are they incredibly expensive? It seems like such a gaping hole in their defense?

@PaperTyger

Re the MIGs etc.

Does anyone know why Ukraine has so few?
If they had a good amount surely it would have been put to use early on wiping out convoys, helping to stop the shelling?
Are they incredibly expensive? It seems like such a gaping hole in their defense?

From Wikipedia:

Combat aircraftt*
Mikoyan MiG-29
Soviet Union
Multirole

37~70
8 used for conversion training[55][56]
Sukhoi Su-24
Soviet Union
Attack

12[55]

Sukhoi Su-25
Soviet Union
Attack / Close air support

17[55]
Sukhoi Su-27
Soviet Union
Multirole

Note: as part of ongoing events, the following numbers may be outdated. The Russian Defence Ministry has claimed that over 100 air defence systems and over 90 aircraft have been disabled or destroyed as of March 6, 2022.[53] No official figures from the Ukrainian Defence Ministry were immediately available. According to US defense officials, UKAF still has 56 operational fighter jets as of March 11, 2022.[54]

@DuncinToffee

news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russia-declares-interest-in-hosting-2028-euros-taking-on-uk-ireland-bid-despite-international-football-ban-12573453

The Football Union of Russia posted on its website on Wednesday that it "supports the decision to declare interest in hosting the European Championship 2028 or 2032 in Russia".

And Turkey.

Lots of people quipping in the Times comments that they're obviously not thinking there will be a nuclear war if they think there will be enough people to play and watch in 2028 or 2032.

As of April 2021, the United Kingdom had 555 fixed-wing aircraft in the Royal Air Force and other branches of it's armed forces, the most numerous of which was the UK's main fighter jet, the Eurofighter Typhoon, of which there were 137. The next most common aircraft in the UK Armed Forces was the Tutor, an aircraft primarily used for training purposes.

Source: Statista

twitter.com/timkmak/status/1506600385204695046
Diary account of a journalist in Ukraine.

It gives an account of people he met in a bar and their experiences. One guy has had a particularly dreadful experience (which is why I've not copied it here as the brief description is bad enough).

Wow so they have 50 and we have 555

Why oh why so few!
So much has happened it seems too shore them up over the past few years and yet this gaping hole!
Also no ships to protect the ports!

@RedToothBrush I might be being thick but I'm confused by that readout about Ilyin. On one hand it suggests his outburst reflects low morale in the Russian military; on the other it suggests it might be to do with anger towards the US/Ukraine. Which is it? Am I missing something?

@PaperTyger

Wow so they have 50 and we have 555

Why oh why so few!
So much has happened it seems too shore them up over the past few years and yet this gaping hole!
Also no ships to protect the ports!

Not quite.

We have 555 in total. That's a variety of aircraft.

137 is the U.K. figure for Eurofighters - (Typhoons) and they are much more sophisticated fighters than the Ukraine Air Force has.

@PaperTyger

Wow so they have 50 and we have 555

Why oh why so few!
So much has happened it seems too shore them up over the past few years and yet this gaping hole!
Also no ships to protect the ports!

We do not have 555 combat aircraft.

We (ie UK) have about 150 with more on order. This excludes drones and helicopters.

Russia has substantial attack helicopters in reserve. Not all will be serviceable as we now expect, nor will all their pilots be willing.

@MagicFox The way I read is that he's served Russia almost all his life, his family is from the Ukraine and he's torn in two. He went to school in the troubled Donetsk region, which is half looking to the east and half to the west.

When people are angry, they lash out and blame the person in front of them. To blame Putin at this moment must be a total headfuck for him so he's taking the easy way out and blaming the US.

@PaperTyger

Wow so they have 50 and we have 555

Why oh why so few!
So much has happened it seems too shore them up over the past few years and yet this gaping hole!
Also no ships to protect the ports!

No we have 137 fighters, the rest are training, transport, non combat, ceremonial, obsolete, passenger etc

Some of those 137 aren't combat ready either.

If Ukr can come up with 50 Migs and Su's they are doing very well for a relatively small nation, against a far bigger air force with much better air defence.

Sorry we also have 24 Lightning jets capable of VTOL (used on our aircraft carriers).

Ok

Do want anyone's else feel they should have had more though?

I wonder what happend to that granny we saw training with the gun before the invasion

RAF Source re: Typhoon data.

www.armedforces.co.uk/raf/listings/l0028.html

I admit I thought it was more too! it doesnt sound very many ...

Of the Ukrainian 50 aircraft, how many are operational and fighting against the russian forces?

[quote BreadInCaptivity]RAF Source re: Typhoon data.

www.armedforces.co.uk/raf/listings/l0028.html[/quote]
Correction source is: defence suppliers directory

@Ijsbear

I admit I thought it was more too! it doesnt sound very many ...

Of the Ukrainian 50 aircraft, how many are operational and fighting against the russian forces?

I'm not sure we know that number tbh and I doubt Ukraine wants to publish it to Putin.

coughs Point.

[quote Ijsbear]@MagicFox The way I read is that he's served Russia almost all his life, his family is from the Ukraine and he's torn in two. He went to school in the troubled Donetsk region, which is half looking to the east and half to the west.

When people are angry, they lash out and blame the person in front of them. To blame Putin at this moment must be a total headfuck for him so he's taking the easy way out and blaming the US.[/quote]
Thanks @Ijsbear that makes sense

Ok Typhoons.

From what I can find the U.K. ordered 160 to be delivered in a number of tranches.

We currently have 137 BUT...

They come in two variants. One and two pilots. The latter being predominantly used for training purposes, though they can be used in combat (but I'm guessing they are less operationally capable than the one pilot version).

I can't find data on the ratio of 1/2 pilot variants we have.

In addition, though not all the fighters will be combat ready "now"'some will be undergoing scheduled maintenance (Russia take more).

So as to the number of Typhoons and Lightnings we have "ready to go" is a bit of a guess.

Key Takeaways

Russian forces continue to go over to the defensive, conducting restricted and localized ground attacks that make little progress.
Ukrainian forces are conducting limited and successful counterattacks around Kyiv to disrupt Russian operations to encircle the city (which has now become extremely unlikely) and relieve the pressure on the capital.
The Battle of Mariupol continues as a block-by-block struggle with fierce Ukrainian resistance and limited Russian gains.
Russia is likely struggling to obtain fresh combat power from Syria and elsewhere rapidly.

From the links people posted a few threads ago, Russian battle units can put out a lot of firepower and are even better defensively, iirc.

If they are very good defensively, will that mean it's very, very difficult for Ukrainians to retake areas where the Russians have had time to dig in?

Aeroplanes cost a lot, to buy, to maintain and to update. A second hand MIG goes for $5 to $8 million.

There were two Shadows doing night exercises over our house last night, plus a few transponder off helicopters (hence me being up late)
www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/110-million-upgrade-for-raf-shadow-fleet Honestly they look like budget flight planes to the Isle of Man. £110 million for two planes and a bit of an upgrade for another six. The US surveillance planes make these look cheap.

You don't just need super expensive fighters you need the rest of the team.

Ukraine just didn't have the money. It is going to have a spectacular debt after this war.

Reuters
A Russian-drafted call for aid access and civilian protection in Ukraine that does not mention Moscow's role in the crisis failed at the U.N. Security Council, with only Russia and China voting yes and the remaining 13 members abstaining

"Aid access and civilian protection"?

Isn't that another way of saying "let's ship everyone off" all over again?

@DuncinToffee

Reuters A Russian-drafted call for aid access and civilian protection in Ukraine that does not mention Moscow's role in the crisis failed at the U.N. Security Council, with only Russia and China voting yes and the remaining 13 members abstaining

Is this the one the Canadians did the funny edits to?