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Original poster

Ukraine-invasion-part-15

999 replies

Ijsbear · 20/03/2022 16:14

Next part.

OP posts:
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15
PaperTyger · 20/03/2022 20:27

Poland, and Denmark have said they would do a peace mission.

They seem to think they can cope with it.

To be honest, doesn't anyone agree it wouldn't take much at the moment to tip the balance into Ukraine favour.
I think the USA staying out at this point is a better Idea.
Sounds hopeful to me.

MagicFox · 20/03/2022 20:28

Dunno if kind of sounds like the US cutting Europe off in some sense. I know it's not that simple but ...

MagicFox · 20/03/2022 20:28

EU I mean

MarshaBradyo · 20/03/2022 20:30

@MagicFox

Dunno if kind of sounds like the US cutting Europe off in some sense. I know it's not that simple but ...
Feels a bit depressing to me
PaperTyger · 20/03/2022 20:31

They're already have 100,00 troops there though, much better to have them there as back up and are flooding Ukraine with endless billion dollar packages.
They have already shored up the borders of Poland etc.

Surely far better to have them in reserve and Keep them out of the USA v Russia big clash?

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2022 20:32

Update: in addition to the Syrians and Wagner incoming (Chechens outgoing), reports this evening that troops from South Ossetia have been seen in Ukraine. Thats the occupied bit of Georgia. So troops being redeployed - from Syria and Georgia by the look of it.

I've also just seen a map detailing the supposed Belarusian plan of attack pop up. Its on an account I've followed for a considerable number of years and I tend to value (don't go as far as trust). The plan is basically to run for and take Lviv, which was the rumour...

Talk earlier today is they will join the war in the next couple of days.

So 20,000 Belarusians, 40,000 Syrians, some redeployed troops from South Ossetia and a few hundred Wagner Mercenaries potentially on the cards in the next few days.

PaperTyger · 20/03/2022 20:33

Depressing in what way Marsha?

To me it seems they finally NATO isn't lumbering along like some mass immovable blocks and is adapting for the crisis in hand.

PaperTyger · 20/03/2022 20:34

Take lviv Shock

Gingerwarthog · 20/03/2022 20:35

@PaperTyger

Take lviv Shock
Yes. Bloody awful to think of.
RedToothBrush · 20/03/2022 20:36

[quote MagicFox]US pledges to support NATO allies putting troops into Ukraine but won't do so itself Hmm twitter.com/samramani2/status/1505638813519028229?s=21[/quote]
It maybe to avoid feeding the idea in Putins head that the US are evil tbf.

But yes, leaves Europe on its own and Johnson an opportunity to go full Europe protectorate.

(am definitely noting US saying no and uk saying what do you want almost blank cheque like within a short space of time of each other.)

Shuuu · 20/03/2022 20:36

I’m getting the impression Belarus isn’t as game as they initially were. If the reports are true regarding Belarusians sabotaging advances being made then even if they decide to invade alongside Russia, support from their troops cannot be guaranteed. It may be safe to say Alexander Lukashenko is seeing how Russia is being damaged & the potential for the Russian ppl to turn against Vladimir Putin is high. Reports coming from inside Belarus reporting the Russian soldiers being transported also signifies all Is not well.

Is anybody else thinking the air attacks are because troops are not performing as expected so Putin has no choice other than to destroy Ukraine by other means.

PaperTyger · 20/03/2022 20:40

USA has pledged billions, it's flooding Ukraine with constant supply of lethal aid as well as humanitarian aid, they have shored up the borders along Ukraine with thousands of troops and fly regular sorties over Poland and along the borders.

They are saying no to one aspect.
Boots into Ukraine.

Time for EU to step up?

MagicFox · 20/03/2022 20:41

@RedToothBrush but remember Putin considers the UK a 'floating vassal' of the US. Makes us very vulnerable

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2022 20:41

@Shuuu

I’m getting the impression Belarus isn’t as game as they initially were. If the reports are true regarding Belarusians sabotaging advances being made then even if they decide to invade alongside Russia, support from their troops cannot be guaranteed. It may be safe to say Alexander Lukashenko is seeing how Russia is being damaged & the potential for the Russian ppl to turn against Vladimir Putin is high. Reports coming from inside Belarus reporting the Russian soldiers being transported also signifies all Is not well.

Is anybody else thinking the air attacks are because troops are not performing as expected so Putin has no choice other than to destroy Ukraine by other means.

Well this tweet probably sums up

Illia Ponomarenko @IAponomarenko
If Belarus actively joins the war, we can talk about up to 20,000 troops with no combat experience, set to attack a region featuring an extremely complex terrain and multiple layers of defense, and amid serious lack of motivation and unrest among personnel.

Replies question whether Lukashenko can commit more than 6000 because if 20000 plod off south, he potentially leaves himself vulnerable to a domestic revolt.

Either way it tends to smack of the smell of desparation and a last push to try and get over the line before the window of opportunity starts to close for Russia.

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2022 20:47

[quote MagicFox]@RedToothBrush but remember Putin considers the UK a 'floating vassal' of the US. Makes us very vulnerable [/quote]
To what?

Nukes?

I thought peace was going to mean we avoided them?

Or are we starting to grasp that if Putin is in a cyclic mode of action, we are going to end up rather stuffed either way.

I kind of figure Macron might be an narcissistic fool in his own way, but he's not that bad as a neighbour!

We've had worse!

MagicFox · 20/03/2022 20:49

Good point! God, I wish we had a better prime minister at that point.

MagicFox · 20/03/2022 20:50

This point, even!

LaDoIceVita · 20/03/2022 20:50

@PaperTyger

USA has pledged billions, it's flooding Ukraine with constant supply of lethal aid as well as humanitarian aid, they have shored up the borders along Ukraine with thousands of troops and fly regular sorties over Poland and along the borders.

They are saying no to one aspect.
Boots into Ukraine.

Time for EU to step up?

Yes.
notimagain · 20/03/2022 20:50

@PaperTyger

USA has pledged billions, it's flooding Ukraine with constant supply of lethal aid as well as humanitarian aid, they have shored up the borders along Ukraine with thousands of troops and fly regular sorties over Poland and along the borders.

They are saying no to one aspect.
Boots into Ukraine.

Time for EU to step up?

I’m sure you don’t mean to give the impression it’s only the US that has been supplying lethal aid, humanitarian aid, troops, operating flights over Poland etc…
Alexandra2001 · 20/03/2022 20:50

Time for EU to step up?

Wtf ? EU is a trading bloc not a military alliance and when they did toy with the idea of a v small military, they were castigated and accused of undermining NATO and becoming a 4th Reich.

Agree with Marsha, this is like the unwinding of NATO and the US underwriting Europes security.

10,000 US troops is insignificant.

ParsleySageRosemary · 20/03/2022 20:51

I skimmed over some of the mention of peacekeeping earlier. I have been wondering about whether EU troops could be placed in the western part of Ukraine, especially now around Lviv with it being refugee capital. I hope military people are studying maps of the area.

If NATO did nothing in the event of invasion, it would, as you say, mean nothing. Neither would Europe, neither would any idea of peace and security here. Nuclear weapons or no, the rest of us would respond.

(I could wish, uselessly, that nuclear uses had never been invented.)

PaperTyger · 20/03/2022 20:52

Alexandra rather than typing out all the individual names of European countries it's much easier to say the EU.

StormzyinaTCup · 20/03/2022 20:55

Wtf ? EU is a trading bloc not a military alliance and when they did toy with the idea of a v small military, they were castigated and accused of undermining NATO and becoming a 4th Reich.

Just as well - I wouldn’t want UvDL being in charge of EU military action!

PaperTyger · 20/03/2022 20:56

As NATO is defensive rather than offensive to me it makes sense that individual countries go in, as they choose.
Rather than as NATO.

NATO doesn't mean nothing, it's defence alliance it would mean nothing if Putin attacked Poland and nothing happened.

But all these countries being shrouded in NATO Also means being able to help Ukraine more is curtailed

AgnesWestern · 20/03/2022 20:57

Does the latest development mean NATO is thinking of getting involved? Or just that the US is distancing itself from that possibility?

And I know what @MagicFox means about making ourselves vulnerable here in the UK.

I guess I’m a minority though, seems most people want NATO involvement now…I just hope and pray it doesn’t lead to a full scale world war.

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