Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Ukraine-invasion-part-15

999 replies

Ijsbear · 20/03/2022 16:14

Next part.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
MarshaBradyo · 22/03/2022 19:38

I think Putin has enough to deal with in Ukraine before going for Poland

Can’t be sure of course

TiddyTidTwo · 22/03/2022 19:48

Russia under Putin has no place in the modern world

TiddyTidTwo · 22/03/2022 19:51

Marsha

I agree but this man lives in his own bubble. He is hell bent on his agenda no matter what the cost. He does not care for his people or his troops. He cares about the old archaic USSR. He's NUTS and why we are trying to negotiate with him is frankly, beyond me

PaperTyger · 22/03/2022 19:53

Woops;
Apparently Ben Wallace was edited and we have lots of nlaws?!

elephantmarchingin · 22/03/2022 19:56

@TiddyTidTwo as has been said multiple times the suffering by not negotiating would be even worse... this is how diplomacy works

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 22/03/2022 19:58

@TiddyTidTwo

Hunter Biden is not a minnow and if his father is scratching his arse whilst genocide occurs then NATO is a bloody joke. US is seen as the father of NATO? Why? Numbers? Number of nuclear weapons? Troops? Money??

Being "defensive" is fine until it all goes tits up. Like it has. And as if Putin doesn't have this knowledge.

If being part of NATO means we sit and watch this murder then frankly, I'm not sure what it's all about.

I'm old so bear with me. When the huge Argentina invaded the falklands and US news networks put out "the sun has set on another corner of the British Empire" like it was a done deal???? Thatcher had her faults but no bloody way was Argentina taking the Falklands. The British there didn't want it. There were more sheep on those islands than brits but was she going to be bullied? No way.

It was a horrible war and we didn't win easily. She was criticised but I like her thoughts on the Belgravia as to Putin. "Oh but it might be sailing away and we don't know if it'll turn back, fully armoured" what shall we do? What will people think??

Sink it.

Did Argentina have nuclear missiles?
RedToothBrush · 22/03/2022 20:00

Jim Sciutto @jimsciutto
^New: Belarus could "soon" join war in Ukraine, US/NATO officials say,
and is already taking steps to do so. “Putin needs support. Anything would help,” said one official. Belarusian opposition tells me combat units are ready as soon as next few days, with 1000s prepared to deploy^

Bianna Golodryga @biannagolodryga
Belarusian troops joining the fight would certainly put more strain on Ukrainian resources. But the major significance here is that last month, Belarus abandoned its non-nuclear status.

Mark Hertling @MarkHertling
My only response to this: When I was @USArmyEURAF Commander, we rated forces. Belarus was NOT anywhere near the top, if you get my drift. And fighting in a war the people of Belarus reject, under the orders of a President they don't support, will be "interesting."

Michael Weiss @michaeldweiss
Watch for the desertion (and defection) rate if this does in fact happen.

A Western intel source told me Lukashenko keeps deferring deployment by about 3 days every time he’s asked by Moscow. He doesn’t want to do it either. He knows.

A lot of Belarusians fled to Ukraine in the last two years. No doubt many with relatives in the military. I’d be surprised if Kyiv wasn’t making ample use of this fact.

Victor Kovalenko @MrKovalenko
On this photo you can see a moment when a #Russian tank driver, a Soldier Misha surrenders to the #Ukrainian troops together with his tank for a reward. After the end of war he'll receive $10,000 & a chance to apply for the #Ukraine citizenship. [Thread]

[2] After all members of Misha's tank crew were killed in combat and his officer said that he can't retreat because he will be shot to death, Rus. soldier Misha called from his stolen Ukr. cellphone to a special Ukr. phone number to surrender for a reward.

[3] As agreed, Misha drove his tank to the Ukrainian positions and surrendered to the SpetsNaz unit. For bringing a functional tank, this POW Misha will live till the end of war in a cell with a kitchen, TV, shower, and a landline phone. Source: aide of MoIA Viktor Andrusiv.

Kamil Galeev @kamilkazani
Ukrainian Ministry of Interior reports that a Russian soldier turned his tank over to the Ukrainians. He'll get 10 thousand usd and the opportunity to apply to citizenship. That's great: defection and sabotage among the Russian military should be encouraged and scaled up

One thing to understand about Russian soldiers. I watched many videos with captured conscripts. Countryside, small towns, provincial cities. For the entire time I saw 1 (one) from Moscow. It's the army of the poor. They can be bought very cheaply if you just try

the captain (een echte) @jeffreybbq
How about the families of soldiers who do that?

Kamil Galeev @kamilkazani
You watch too many Hollywood movies. Many families don't care about their captured sons at all and would very much prefer to see them dead. Dead one is ok, POW is a headache. There's often no family loyalty and it goes both ways

TiddyTidTwo · 22/03/2022 20:10

Did Argentina have nuclear missiles

if they did would they have taken the chance against a bloody strong leader?

MurderAtTheBeautyPageant · 22/03/2022 20:10

You watch too many Hollywood movies. Many families don't care about their captured sons at all and would very much prefer to see them dead. Dead one is ok, POW is a headache. There's often no family loyalty and it goes both ways

Damn, that's cold!

MissConductUS · 22/03/2022 20:11

I'm old so bear with me. When the huge Argentina invaded the falklands and US news networks put out "the sun has set on another corner of the British Empire" like it was a done deal????

Actually, no. There was a huge outpouring of support for the UK and massive logistical and intelligence support for the Royal Navy.

U.S. Aid to Britain In Falklands War Is Detailed

Here's a brief snippet.

Pentagon officials confirmed many of the details in the report, including the fact that the United States repositioned a spy satellite, using up scarce fuel and thus shortening the satellite's life in space, from its Soviet-watching orbit in the Northern Hemisphere to a place over the South Atlantic where it could provide intelligence to the British fleet.

The officials said American intelligence information, provided by means other than just satellites, probably made the key difference between winning and losing because the Argentine attacks on the Royal Navy would have been even more effective if the British had not had the information.

Pentagon officials spoke of extraordinary coordination between the American and British services. The United States supplied 12.5 million gallons of aviation fuel diverted from U.S. stockpiles, along with hundreds of Sidewinder missiles, airfield matting, thousands of rounds of mortar shells and other equipment, they said.

TargusEasting · 22/03/2022 20:13

Hunter Biden is not a minnow @TiddyTidTwo

You may have misunderstood my point, which was in this great order of disaster capitalism and the commercial privatisation of war. Some families now enjoy the equivalent of the GDP of small nations. Quite literally, wars can decant a nations future wealth to a bank account in Cayman or Zurich. We will save you. But before we leave, here is the bill. Settlement in 30 days. Have a nice day. Hunter Biden is nowhere even close to these operators.

TargusEasting · 22/03/2022 20:14

@TiddyTidTwo

Did Argentina have nuclear missiles

if they did would they have taken the chance against a bloody strong leader?

They were working towards it. Brazil also. Just ran out of steam.
TiddyTidTwo · 22/03/2022 20:15

Elephant** I'm not seeing diplomacy. I'm seeing desperate people who lived like us a month ago, desperate for water drinking out of radiators and water filled trenches with corpses rotting in them. I'm reading about children with their limbs blown off and they are the one still breathing. I'm reading about family pets feeding off corpses and they are the lucky ones and desperate people are killing their pets to eat.

Really? We sit behind our keyboards but... really?

TiddyTidTwo · 22/03/2022 20:18

Actually, no. There was a huge outpouring of support for the UK and massive logistical and intelligence support for the Royal Navy

Excellent so here's my point. Why not Ukraine?

MarshaBradyo · 22/03/2022 20:21

@TiddyTidTwo

Marsha

I agree but this man lives in his own bubble. He is hell bent on his agenda no matter what the cost. He does not care for his people or his troops. He cares about the old archaic USSR. He's NUTS and why we are trying to negotiate with him is frankly, beyond me

I think that’s part of the issue

Trying to deal with someone so intent on his own path but without escalating the situation

He’s a massive thorn in everyone’s side , especially after the pandemic which pales in comparison atm

If there was an easy way to remove his threat I’d love to do it

AgnesWestern · 22/03/2022 20:22

@TiddyTidTwo

I think the main answer is that nobody wants a full on war with Russia. Especially not the US. Two big powers get into conflict, both with a large amount of nuclear weapons and it’s bad news for everyone.

elephantmarchingin · 22/03/2022 20:23

@TiddyTidTwo

Elephant** I'm not seeing diplomacy. I'm seeing desperate people who lived like us a month ago, desperate for water drinking out of radiators and water filled trenches with corpses rotting in them. I'm reading about children with their limbs blown off and they are the one still breathing. I'm reading about family pets feeding off corpses and they are the lucky ones and desperate people are killing their pets to eat.

Really? We sit behind our keyboards but... really?

So let's pull everyone else into war and see this happen to more and more people?

Diplomacy is making sure it doesn't spread whilst securing an outcome for those suffering.

How does it help anyone if the rest of the world is crippled by war?

War is brutal but by causing it to spread it will not help matters

elephantmarchingin · 22/03/2022 20:24

@TiddyTidTwo

Actually, no. There was a huge outpouring of support for the UK and massive logistical and intelligence support for the Royal Navy

Excellent so here's my point. Why not Ukraine?

There has been...

Billions in aid, refugees given safety, intelligence being shared, united sanctions

MagicFox · 22/03/2022 20:25

I agree with @elephantmarchingin

MissConductUS · 22/03/2022 20:25

Excellent so here's my point. Why not Ukraine?

The US had provided political, economic and over $1billion worth of military equipment to Ukraine. Who has done more?

TheHateIsNotGood · 22/03/2022 20:30

I have no absolute solution and have found it very difficult to 'make sense' in a long term way of how we can keep our 'peace' in Europe.

The fine line of NATO, which has served us all well for many decades, may well need rethinking. Currently we have an impasse, because if any NATO members send 'forces' to Ukraine it is considered as an Act of War against Russia.

Which can be interpreted as the beginning of WW3 and nuclear holocaust. Or not. Context is everything now.

Russia is not the Soviet Union/USSR - it might have great land mass but it is not Soviet Union anymore - it is a very large country with a Soviet leader in charge.

There is only one solution and Ukraine must win this war and as quickly as possible. And I hate War. And have always appreciated Putin and how he made most Western Leaders look like wankers.

There have been many NATO-sanctioned Alliances that have allowed member states to conduct defensive acts of war - Kosovo
for one.

Who are we in Western Europe and beyond to curtail and inhibit any such actions by the Eastern European NATO states who might have a greater understanding of the need to act than we do.

TiddyTidTwo · 22/03/2022 20:32

MissConduct

You think this will sway Putin? Has it swayed Putin? He's got Biden's number..

MarshaBradyo · 22/03/2022 20:34

And have always appreciated Putin

Really? Even against all this violence - just because of the western leader thing

TiddyTidTwo · 22/03/2022 20:38

Putin is still USSR. He will never leave that mindset. That's what we are fighting against and that's why we cannot be weak.

Those atrocities in Ukraine are feeding Putin.

Honestly I'm done with peace talks, different factions, us this, uk that. It's putins game and we all fell asleep in our comfortable lives.

TargusEasting · 22/03/2022 20:38

The officials said American intelligence information, provided by means other than just satellites, probably made the key difference between winning and losing

The US assisted, in the end. As I recall from real life back then, the US did not unconditionally back the UK's position in the first couple of weeks, but then it changed its own position from neutral to supporting the UK to eject Argentinian forces.

The key difference between winning and losing was not due to US assistance on the intelligence front. I will never agree with you on that. The British strengths were down to well-trained NCOs with experience in combat present (Northern Ireland) and past. The UK has a certain knack of being able to pass battle know-how through successive intakes of personnel. Largely because British forces have been involved with wars every decade for centuries. The senior NCOs were and still are pivotal to that success. The other factor was the Argentinian mandate for war. There simply wasn't one against the background of Argentina as it was then. Argentinian soldiers were mostly conscripts with no battle experience and some had lost fingers to frostbite before they were able to fire a gun in anger. Whatever morale there was crumbled quickly.

The US is helping Ukraine now in more substantive ways than it helped the UK in 1982. But it is not the US assistance that is going to have the biggest effect, welcome as it is. Core Russian morale is in danger of collapsing because its soldiers have no cause for this was and that is the Achilles heel now.