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Ukraine-invasion-part-15

999 replies

Ijsbear · 20/03/2022 16:14

Next part.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
WeAreTheHeroes · 21/03/2022 07:24

@Alexandra2001 - what do you want to see happen? You've repeatedly criticised the international response, particularly NATO.

Autumnwater · 21/03/2022 07:26

Saw this when scrolling back on the overnight news on the BBC

“The Chinese ambassador to the United States says that China will not send weapons and ammunition to support Russia’s war in Ukraine and that Beijing would “do everything to de-escalate the crisis”. and also this

Gang complained that public condemnation by the West "doesn't help" and that "good diplomacy" was needed.

meditrina · 21/03/2022 07:28

A little girl (Dominica) singing to her parents and grandparents, followed by "Dominica died instantly, her mother died in hospital after the bunker they were in was hit by a Russian shell"

Thats whats happening in Mariupol and in many other cities across Ukraine and will continue to do so as we look on

Meanwhile "How much will fuel duty be cut?" is the headline across UK tabloids

Yup - 1992

Only replace the location with Sarajevo, and the economic crisis with dropping out of the ERM

Alexandra2001 · 21/03/2022 07:38

[quote WeAreTheHeroes]@Alexandra2001 - what do you want to see happen? You've repeatedly criticised the international response, particularly NATO.[/quote]
Then you'll know.... if we are not prepared to intervene militarily, then arm the Ukrainians properly, a few stingers and hand held anti tanks weapons are not enough.
The Polish planes idea should have happened.

IF we wont do this, then all we are doing is allowing Ukraine to be destroyed, prolonging their suffering, as Putin isn't going to stop, he will go from city to city starving and bombing them into submission.

Putin will eventually turn his attention to other countries, once he wins in Ukraine, his position in the Kremlin will be unassailable and able to do as he pleases.

UK Govt won't even call what Russia is doing as Genocide, our response is soooooo weak, hiding behind legalities.

PaperTyger · 21/03/2022 07:39

Bread in captivatity and Stormzy , both great post's this am.

Both very valid points.

Re rtb, does have an engaging styles and does have a pied Piper effect as said before with fame comes responsibilityGrin I think people thought that post was attention seeking Maybe?

I agree that people with anxiety should not be seeking solace from this thread, and need to take personal responsibility.
Absolutely no one probably not Putin himself knows what's happening here or how it will turn out.

It's a fluid situation with many moving parts.

I enjoy most people's contributions and reds gathered comments and posts from twitter etc are the beating heart 💓.

But no one knows more then anyone else.
Although some like notim seem to have RL speciality in certain areas.

PaperTyger · 21/03/2022 07:41

Autumn let's hope that is true!

PaperTyger · 21/03/2022 07:46

Sky news.

China to give further aid to Ukraine.

Ok so at least they are trying to sound more balanced to the west

PaperTyger · 21/03/2022 07:48

What does this awfully shelling? Is it tanks?

DrBlackbird · 21/03/2022 07:54

It is particularly interesting/useful when posters (such as Red but also others) include either links to tweets or copies articles / interviews etc from more reliable sources. It’s not that these posters are some oracle but rather this is information that I wouldn’t have had otherwise about both about events as they’re unfolding and other’s thoughts on Putin’s mindset, Ukraine’s military position etc. It’s been illuminating. If you read this @RedToothBrush please keep posting.

Wrongkindofovercoat · 21/03/2022 08:00

@PaperTyger I would imagine it is probably a combination of artillary, air dropped bombs and missiles from the navy ships, depending on where is getting bombarded.
The Russians seem to have used their more expensive weapons for tactical strikes and cheaper, more readily available ones for the wanton destruction of Mariupol.
It seems strange that for someone purporting to wanting to save 'russians' living in Ukraine, Putin has killed so many and destroyed so much in a city that is predominantly russian speaking.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 21/03/2022 08:01

Pravda are this morning telling their readers that Zelenskyy wants talks in Jerusalem with the Russian party.

They are gloating that Biden didn't get what he wanted from China and that he has some difficult decisions ahead.

They are also making noises about denazification in Latvia and accusing Poland - The Hyena Of Europe of inciting WW3 by proposing the use of NATO boots on the ground. Apparently this happened during the visit of the 3 PMs in Kyiv, even though Pravda is sceptical about where the meeting happened.

A big articles addresses the fact that the Russian army didn't get greeted with as liberators by the Ukrainians. Brainwashing by the Ukrainian government appears to be the answer.

There is another piece, Rabid Animals Need Shot, Not Treated, but I honestly don't have the inclination of reading it.

I need a shower after this gentle morning read.

forinborin · 21/03/2022 08:03

@JamieNorthlife

I have a question but not sure if this is the correct place to ask.

I saw a lot of videos circulating with Ukrainians taping (it looks like tape or cling film) people to posts and torturing them. The captions were that these were Russian speaking Ukrainians being tortured by Ukrainian ultranationalists and this is not new behaviour.

Has anyone else watched these videos or knows if these videos are real or staged?

I am a Russian speaking Ukrainian (as more than a half of Ukraine is, including the president, the mayor of Kiev, and almost everyone you see on the news now from the Ukrainian side, and Russian is the most commonly spoken language in Ukrainian trenches too) and I can assure you I am yet to be taped to a post. Stop watching Russian propaganda.
mpsw · 21/03/2022 08:05

@PaperTyger

What does this awfully shelling? Is it tanks?
Nope, it's the big guns of the artillery, which will be miles away (probably around 14-20, possibly further) or mortar shellfire (up to about 5 miles away).

These weapons are (probably) being fired as area weapons (you can target the general area you want to destroy, but not specific buildings) rather than being more closely aimed (for which you need forward observers - though of course they could be available if Russian special forces are operating in the target vicinity.

There's another poster who knows more about artillery than I do, who might be along to add to this (and probably correct it!)

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2022 08:07

Mariupol couldn't surrender. The Ukrainians know what happened last time and what is already happening. People are being vetted if they want to leave, with those who are deemed unworthy disappearing. There are rumours of slave camps circulating.

Noga Tarnpolsky @ntarnpolsky
Zelensky quotes the Ukrainian-born Golda Meir: "We intend to remain alive. Our neighbors want to see us dead. This is not a question that leaves much room for compromise," saying it is well-known to Israelis, Ukrainians "and Russians, too."

This is a diary account from someone in Mariupol:

Hromadske Int. @hromadske
Mariupol today. We publish the full text by Nadia Sukhorukova.

Hromadske International @hromadske
I go outside in between the bombings. I need to walk the dog. She's whining, shivering, and hiding behind my legs. I want to sleep all the time. My yard, surrounded by high-rise buildings, is silent and dead. 1/13

I'm not afraid to look around anymore. In front of me, the entrance to building #105 is burning down. The flames already devoured five floors and are slowly chewing the sixth. The fire in the room burns as delicately as in a fireplace. 2/13

Black charred windows are windowless. Curtains torn by the fire fall out of them like tongues. Calm and doomed I look at it. I am sure I will die soon. It is a matter of a few days. In this city, everyone is constantly waiting for death. I just want it not to be too scary. 3/13

Three days ago, a friend of my older nephew came to us and told us that there was a direct hit in the fire department. Rescuers died. One woman got her arm, leg, and head torn off. I dream that my body parts will remain in place, even after the aerial bomb explosion. 4/13

I don't know why, but I think it's important.Although, they won't bury during hostilities. That's what the police told us when we asked what to do with our friend's dead grandmother. They advised to put her on the balcony. I wonder how many balconies have dead bodies on them?5/13

Our home on Mira Avenue is the only one without direct hits. It was hit twice by a shell, in some apartments windows were blown out, but it did not suffer much compared to other homes.

The whole yard is covered with layers of ash, glass, plastic, and metal fragments. 6/13

I try not to look at the iron thing that flew into the playground. I think it's a rocket, or maybe a land mine. I don't care, it's just unpleasant. I see someone's face in the third-floor window, and I shudder. It turns out that I am afraid of living people. 7/13

My dog starts howling, and I realize that they're going to shoot again. I am standing outside in the daytime and a cemetery silence all around me. There are no cars, no voices, no children, no grandmothers on the benches. Even the wind is dead. 8/13

A few people are here, though. They lie on the side of the house and in the parking lot, covered with their outer clothing. I don't want to look at them. I'm afraid I'll see someone I know. 9/13

All life in my town is smoldering in basements right now. It's like a candle in our shelter. Putting it out is so easy. Any vibration or breeze and the darkness will fall. I try to cry, but I can not. I feel sorry for myself, my family, my husband, my neighbors, my friends. 10/13

I go back to the basement and listen to the ugly scraping of iron. It's been two weeks, and I don't believe that there was ever another life. 11/13

There are still people in the basement in Mariupol. It's getting harder for them to survive by the day. No water, no food, no light, they can't go outside. The people of Mariupol must live. Help them. Spread the word. Let everyone know that civilians continue to be killed. 12/13

Original text on Facebook
t.co/lBfnvBB7CI

And this is what seems likely to now start happening :

Christopher Miller @christopherJM
A chilling new threat. Russia's Defense Ministry says Ukraine has until 5am on March 21 to surrender the besieged city of Mariupol, adding it'll let residents and troops who lay down arms leave. Anyone left behind "with the bandits" will "face a military tribunal." via RIA

I have done a ton of reporting on "military tribunals" conducted by Russia and its separatist proxies in eastern Ukraine since the war began in 2014. Here's a disturbing look at what they are:

www.rferl.org/a/the-executioners-of-slovyansk/30743132.html
The Executioners Of Slovyansk
A Death Squad Unmasked As Ukraine War Grinds On Six Years Later

After an RFE/RL investigation, names and faces can now be put to the Russia-backed militants — including one with ties to a longtime Putin aide in the Kremlin — who ordered the extrajudicial executions of Ukrainians by firing squad and set a dark tone for the war in the Donbas.

The 30-year-old Pichko, a civilian, was taken to a gloomy two-story building surrounded by armed guards and barricades. He was interrogated, forced to write a confession, and summarily shot to death by a firing squad of Russia-backed separatists who had seized control of the city. His executioners discarded his body on a battlefield of the war raging between them and Ukrainian forces, where it could be blown to bits by exploding artillery shells, according to family members and friends who sought out his whereabouts when he was taken and looked for his body after learning of his death.

He wasn’t the only person in Slovyansk to meet such a fate.

This is genocide. This is what it looks like.

Wake up.

JamieNorthlife · 21/03/2022 08:08

@forinborin, thanks for explaining. I appreciate that.

But dont tell me what I should and should not watch.

52andblue · 21/03/2022 08:08

I know quoting a long post in its entirety is perhaps not rge eine thing but I thought this was such a clear and useful post from @BreadinCaptivity that it bears repeating.

dibly · 21/03/2022 08:12

This is so awful, feel like the girl in the red coat in Schindler’s List shouting goodbye Jews. How can we stand by and watch without acting? It’s unconscionable

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2022 08:13

I have no intention of pandering to people who clearly don't understand what's happening and think that Ukraine should just make peace because it will make them safe.

There a few posters, who are extraordinarily naive. And if they are anxious about the tone of my post, they may not deal with some of the news that will be on the tv (never mind the internet) over the coming days and weeks.

We are now treading into Bosnian level awfulness.

The idea of sugar coating or sanitising this, i dont think helps because it allows people to pretend it's not real and not happening.

notimagain · 21/03/2022 08:14

@Alexandra2001

if we are not prepared to intervene militarily, then arm the Ukrainians properly, a few stingers and hand held anti tanks weapons are not enough.

Problem is contrary to some popular opinion most of the bigger kit isn’t just point and shoot, the more complex a system gets the more training the operators need.

There’s also the issue that there is some NATO/US equipment is that the west simply do not want getting into Russian hands, which is a possibility of Ukraine falls…so for both those reasons items like Patriot SAM batteries possibly are not going to get delivered, but a provision of a more native system resupply of S-300s may well happen.

The Polish planes idea should have happened.

Until we hear the whole story on that, if we ever do, it’s hard to make a call.

AgnesWestern · 21/03/2022 08:14

I just looked up Pravda, the Russian newspaper.

It’s quite strange as you see the propaganda on that side. Such as ‘NATO uses Ukraine as Trojan horse to strike nuclear blow on Russia’

So maybe they’re just as worried about a nuclear attack from NATO as we are from them.

ClaudineClare · 21/03/2022 08:14

I find this thread really useful, but some posters like to go Chicken Little at times. There have been a few hyperbolic moments, from nuclear power plants being "bombed" to the planes thing a few days ago.

It is a sad fact that there are little girls like Dominica dying in wars every day as the world looks on, it is not just happening in Ukraine. We need to find ways to stop wars not escalate them, however hard it is to not respond to the criminal actions of a tyrant like Putin. It is not "chickenshit" to have that view.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 21/03/2022 08:17

So maybe they’re just as worried about a nuclear attack from NATO as we are from them.

Ordinary people are, especially the older ones. Putin and his men are not ordinary Russian people though.

ClaudineClare · 21/03/2022 08:18

The idea of sugar coating or sanitising this, i dont think helps because it allows people to pretend it's not real and not happening

No poster as far as I can see has suggested sugar coating or sanitising things, RTB.

StormzyinaTCup · 21/03/2022 08:18

We are now treading into Bosnian level awfulness.

You would be naive if you thought this was going to be anything other than Bosnia II.

forinborin · 21/03/2022 08:19

[quote JamieNorthlife]@forinborin, thanks for explaining. I appreciate that.

But dont tell me what I should and should not watch.[/quote]
OK, then watch it if you enjoy it and cannot spare 10 seconds googling about what the actual situation with Russian language in Ukraine is.

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