I’ve said something terrible to my daughter and I feel absolutely awful for it!

[Bestofthebestt]

My daughter is 5 years old and although she’s an amazing, funny and kind little girl, I really, really struggle with her screaming tantrums.

They have been an issue since she was really small. If something doesn’t go her way, her instant response to that is to scream! And I mean scream!

We never give into the screaming and have had meetings with school etc who have given us strategies to help and we have had some successes with those but some days it can be absolutely relentless.

The other day, she was screaming again over something so trivial. I’m not a shouter and I’ve never smacked my kids either but I did hit breaking point and said something I really regret. I had tried all of the strategies but the screaming was getting louder and louder. I said to her that screaming like that is not okay. I explained that the neighbours would worry what was going on. I said “what if they call the police?” “What if the police think you’re not safe because of all of this screaming and think they need to take you away.” I’ve tried so many things to get to grips with this and just at this point, wanted the screaming to stop. My older daughter actually had to put ear defenders on because the noise was so loud. What I said had no impact on the screaming and DD didn’t appear to even care but I feel like the worst mum and parent for the fact that I’ve said this to her.

I had a chat with DD later and explained this wouldn’t happen and to be honest, she doesn’t seem to have given it a second thought.

I mean, what sort of mum says that to their child? I just feel wracked with guilt. I’m not even sure why I’m posting. I just hate myself for how I’ve handled this.

@Clarabe1 then perhaps it would be helpful for you to know that you come across as someone who is not living it.

@Bestofthebestt

So we used to be more firm with her but this seemed to escalate the bad behaviour. She would refuse to go in time out, so we would tell her to go to her room but she’d refuse. We’d then have to carry her which would get her into such a state, she would start hitting, kicking etc. She’d then try to get out of her room and this could go on for half an hour or more. Screaming the whole time. Getting more and more distressed.

We then had a meeting with school and we have made her a calm down area at home. A huge floor cushion with some sensory toys there and a sand timer. She goes to there and if she calms down in the 2 minutes, I write in her reading record and she gets a sticker and well done from her class teacher. This is helpful, but still some days this doesn’t go to plan and it can be really exhausting for us all.

My middle DD was like this. Didn't respond to any of the discipline or firm boundaries my others did. But looking back on it, she wasn't disobedient just entirely overwhelmed and unable to self-regulate. The screaming felt like she was trying to stand in opposition to whatever we needed (hair washing, seatbelts, clothes, etc) but was actually a response from someone who couldn't handle what was being asked of her.

I don't have a solution that's quick, but she has grown into the most lovely, level headed, sensitive kid (13 now) who can always spot when someone else is struggling. She can still have a tendency to clam up rather than ask for what she needs to be comfortable, but is getting better at it every day. When she does tell us something is bothering her, we take it seriously and praise her for voicing it. I really think that her early years were so influenced by her being unable to articulate discomfort, which meant by the time she exploded it was a 'straw that broke the camel's back' situation. It made no sense that ketchup on her knife would tip her over, but after a day of pretending nothing was wrong it was a 1000 tiny offences that she was really screaming about.

I once had the neighbour come over and tell her "we are so worried when we hear you screaming" because I wanted her to know it wasn't just me complaining. It made no difference but she hated that neighbour for a few months.

It might be something more (sensory disorder, communication delay) or it might not. Hang in there and keep loving her the way you are. I don't agree with other that you need to be harsher on a kid like this. Screaming is the only thing she's got that she thinks will make the thing she doesn't like stop. As her communication develops, it will probably taper off. It's hard though. Especially on the other kids. My eldest is still struggling with the fact that she had to accommodate her sibling so much. It felt unfair and stressful.

She's 5. She needs to learn what she's doing isn't okay and that it is true, eventually your neighbours could call the police.
You just got to be firm. When mine used to scream, i wouldn't react I just ingored point blank.
Soon learnt they wouldn't get the reaction they wanted.

That isn't even bad

How do you feel about the suggestions that your daughter may be ND, OP? Is that something you have considered, or are willing to explore? You sound like you are doing a good job. The calm down area was an excellent idea. Seeking further assessment could lead to professionals sharing other helpful strategies. Could you also speak to school SENCO? They are hopefully well informed - and will have to have support in place for children who do not manage so well at school. These things may be very helpful at home. Your daughter may well mature and grow out of this and be fine, or it may escalate, or may change to other anxiety related behaviours. I would rather seek out support and help her now,than wait and see.

I think throwawaynameagain is spot on

"This means nothing! My DD is diagnosed Autistic but shows zero traces of it at school! Here, her behaviour has me in tears, thinking I can't do this any longer etc etc. Yet at school she's absolutely perfect. Apparently it's masking (in girls particularly). They spend all day masking their behaviour at school and then let loose when at home.
I'm not saying she is Autistic, obviously not as I've never met her! I just mean don't disregard the possibility due to her behaviour at school being great"

This. 100%, this.

@Bestofthebestt, your daughter sounds exactly like my son at that age. My son is ND, would have the most horrendous meltdowns at home (never in school - his behaviour there was exemplary all the way through to leaving at 16), but at home, after school, if something wasn't how he thought it ought to be - he'd kick off. He had (still has, at 17) a very black and white, no grey areas, view of the world/his life and if his routine changed even in the slightest way... my God, did I know about it! Luckily, his Reception teacher has a ND son herself, and she recognised traits/little quirks of behaviour, and pushed for an assessment. Turned out that he was masking at school, mentally exhausting himself because he was trying to fit in with the other kids, and then coming back to where he felt safest - and dropping the mask. But he is a boy, and as others have said, it's easier to pick up autism in them, than it is in girls... which might be why her teachers are faffing about and essentially rewarding her for her bad behaviour the night before (I get that they mean well, but... WTF?!).

With my son, we find that when he gets to that point of breakdown, a bath or shower helps. When he was younger, sometimes we'd have to physically put him in a bath, but by the time he was around 8-ish, he'd take himself off when he recognised the "tells" himself. Weirdly, his meltdowns lessoned after a traumatic brain injury when he was 6, but I definitely don't suggest that as an answer at all!

When my son was born, so less than 20 years ago, the notion of girls being autistic (mildly) was something everyone scoffed at. I know 4 girls the same age as my son (a litle older and a little younger) who have been diagnosed with it in the last few years. One of his godmother's claims to have a diagnosis made last year, and actually... my behaviour was "good at school, horrendous at home" too when I was growing up - and I know I mask a lot (because I'm introverted, mainly).

I'd speak to your GP, if I were you, and ask for an assessment to be done. But I'd also stop the rewarding of behaviour at home, by the school, because at home - that's for you and her Dad to reward, not a teacher who has who knows how many other kids dancing through her brain!

On a practical note OP, google something like emotional self regulation in children and you can read up on how to help your DD to manage her emotions.

Also google Zones of Regulation.

I think it is really difficult to understand unless you have a child like this. My youngest is like this and I'm sorry, but the people saying "oh you just need to be strict" and "just don't tolerate it" don't have a clue. Frankly, it's like me saying "I potty trained my sons in 2 days. I just didn't tolerate them having toileting accidents" - it's coming from a viewpoint that the behaviour is a choice.

My son is almost 6. When he goes, which is thankfully decreasing in frequency and intensity as he gets older and we've helped him develop coping strategies, he goes. Shouting or raising my voice will just increase his anger and increase the chance of violence. Of course, it isn't tolerated, but the quickest and best way to de escalate him is to leave him to calm down, then when he's calm speak firmly to him. He always feels incredibly remorseful and ashamed once calm, and I do suspect some neuro diversity, but like you he is extremely academic and fine at school apart from the odd storm out he did at the start of Year 1 (which I was mortified about, but his teacher handled incredibly well). His anger/deep upset is rooted in anxiety that is overwhelming at that moment - shouting at him never helps, just escalates it. Hang on in there OP - my youngest is improving all the time and is deeply empathetic and lovely most of the time. People who have witnessed his meltdowns do find it shocking as it is so removed from what they usually see from him.

Have you talked to someone, apart from the school, about your situation? Your daughter is struggling, you are struggling, your family is affected, its ok to ask someone for help. I mean counselling/therapy to find out why your daughter struggles so much with anger of whatever it is.

I’m sorry but counselling, therapy, speak to senco, book an assessment?! A five year old has tantrums, on one occasion OP lost her temper (understandably) and said something in the heat of the moment which people quite tightly are saying isn’t that bad. Perhaps she is struggling with her emotions because she’s 5?! Just an idea.

[quote Bestofthebestt]@IDontWanna the school don’t think this is a possibility. Her behaviour in school is excellent.[/quote]
Perhaps the strain of being good at school is what tips her over the edge at home. Just a thought.

Screaming was the first sign of autism when our son was 3. He was sociable and funny and quirky as well. School never picked up on anything - he’s an angel in school because he’s terrified of getting into trouble. He’s stubborn and needs sensory input to calm down.
He does a great impression of a neurotypical kid and lots of people who don’t know him well are surprised when they find out he’s autistic.

Unless school staff are also psychologists or paediatricians they are in no way qualified to comment on whether your child may be neurodivergent.

Nowhere near as bad as the utter shit my husband comes out with when the kids are having a meltdown. He told our three year old I was leaving because she splashed in the bath.

Is it time to consider if your daughter is on the spectrum or perhaps as adhd or something similar? I ask because in a lot of children who have these diagnosis you usually see they can hold it together in school as they wear a 'mask' but as soon as they are home and in their safe space that's when they melt down and display behaviour like this.

Is that it? Kindly, I think you are really overreacting to this. That's not a particularly bad thing to say.

Hi op, I have a now 8 year old who was a very similar 5 year old. I feel your pain.

I joke now that I don’t parent her I manage her and parent the other two.

The only thing that worked for me was completely changing my approach with her. Not sure if the the teachers, parenting experts or anyone else would agree with but it honestly worked.

It’s easy to say you’re being too strict, not strict enough, rewarding good behaviour, rewarding bad behaviour. Honestly just do what works for you.

With my dd the only way I got it to stop was changing the way I approached her for requests.

Before I did this any request would be met the same way
Eg
Can you tidy your room
Get ready for bed
Do anything
Dd1 yes
Dd2 (screamer) meltdown
Dd3 ok

So now I instead of saying. It’s time to tidy your room.
I will instead ask if dd can really help me and be super kind and tidy her room.
I explain how much she will be helping me by doing this and how kind she is for helping.

Instead of the usual it’s your mess please tidy it up, which for some reason with her is like poking an angry bear.

For some reason she absolutely thrives on this and this stops so many meltdowns and battles.

The sensory corner idea is good another thing that might be helpful that worked for me is, is she giving her some space when she comes in from school.

This was a prime meltdown time for my dd, can you just let her run around and play out in the garden and explore in the dirt look at bugs etc, or do something sensory like play with playdough or kinetic sand if you don’t have a garden.

I do this as soon as we get home now and it just gives her that times to self regulate after a busy day at school before she starts her evening at home.

It sounds like your dd works hard to keep herself contained all day at school and then explodes at home.

Don’t feel guilty about what you said if she was in the middle of a scream fest she won’t have even noticed I’m sure.

@Bestofthebestt

She’s honestly the best kid when she’s her happy self. She is so so funny and entertains us all with her unique, quirky personality. I’ve just never known a child to explode the way she does. She holds it together at school and always gets a glowing report from there but at home, especially when she’s tired, she’s like a ticking time bomb and it can feel like we’re all treading so carefully to avoid an eruption. It usually does involve her being tired but she is a child who would still nap daily given half a chance. Unfortunately, being nearly 6 now, life doesn’t give her much opportunity to sleep as much as she would like.

I know she’ll grow out of it eventually but it’s just so draining to deal with. I wish I could find the answer but I’ve tried absolutely everything. It’s soul destroying!

She might grow out of it but it could also be a sign that she's ND. ND kids, especially girls, are really good at masking in public settings and then they come home after all the stimulation and the slightest thing can trigger a meltdown.

OP, do take a look at therapeutic parenting techniques.

There is a very good group on Facebook where you can get support with it. Many people use it with adopted and foster children, but I've found the therapeutic parenting techniques very successful with my biological children - it's really about parenting in a very nurturing way, including through challenging behaviour.

It really changed my approach to challenging behaviour like meltdowns and has helped my daughter to overcome them and given me a toolbox of techniques to use if she does get close to meltdown.

I think that my own daughter is probably not totally neurotypical although I've been told by a child psychologist that she is unlikely to meet the criteria for ASD. Like your child, she is very well behaved and really does try her best but gets very overwhelmed by feelings and sensations and it all builds up.

The therapeutic parenting techniques are wonderful and have really made a big difference to us. I feel a lot calmer and happier too.

@Bluetrews25

RedRobin100 I don't know if that's genius (it worked) or would be seen as abusive these days.

It’s just mustard

and you haven’t met my sister..

I would highly recommend The Explosive Child by Ross Green to help with drilling down into the triggers for the screaming.
Also there’s an associated FB page called “The B Team” with loads of support available.
Good luck. I imagine holding everything together in school is just burning her out.

I have explained (very gently) to my much older daughter that if she’s doesn’t clean her teeth etc etc etc with me, the eventual end point of that is that she could be ‘rehomed’, as SS will assume I am not a fit mother AND she will still have to do them anyway. (although I’d like to see them try and make her do anything she doesn’t want to!). It’s just a discussion of possible consequences, not a threat. It’s not in my control.

I had to reread to find what was so awful.

OP, have a look at the PANDA strategies from the PDA Society website and see if there's anything you can use there.

I also think the Ross Greene book is good.