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Ukraine Invasion Part 14

999 replies

MagicFox · 17/03/2022 14:49

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25
shreddednips · 18/03/2022 09:54

@Ijsbear

Agreed there. Agree too that Western companies will be wary of investing in Russia for a time!

Have the Chinese made any movements one way or the other in the last days does anyone know?

Not to my knowledge, America is still saying that it's very concerned China will assist. But unless something has happened that hasn't been reported, then no I don't think so.

The sanctions need to be lifted if Russia withdraws, or it makes excellent anti-west propaganda for Putin and his ilk (and punishes people who have no control over what their governments do.) Any long-term losses to trade need to be in the form of private companies (and Western consumers) voting with their feet. I don't see reducing fuel dependency as punitive in the same way as sanctions- apart from the ethics, it's just common sense not to rely on an economically unstable and unreliable country for vital resources.

tiredvommachineasaurus · 18/03/2022 09:56

I'm sorry, but the McPutin comment has sent me 🤣 given me a much needed smile this morning!

shreddednips · 18/03/2022 10:01

MagicFox, I don't know, because I'm not entirely sure what the substance of the agreement was. Assuming it wasn't a binding alliance, then the main issue is that Xi would have to admit he made a mistake in forming such close ties with Putin, which he may well feel makes him look weak. I still think economic stability will win out though.

eglantine7 · 18/03/2022 10:02

Mc Putin lmao

eglantine7 · 18/03/2022 10:03

It's hilarious and I've been chuckling since I was a child. Some of the versions are very good!
metro.co.uk/2015/08/04/welcome-to-irans-versions-of-mcdonalds-and-pizza-hut-mash-donalds-and-pizza-hat-5326228/

prettybird · 18/03/2022 10:05

As someone who was born in South Africa and whose parents made the difficult decision to leave the country with their young family because of apartheid, I can say that the boycotts did work. I refused to buy anything from South Africa until they held free elections - as did many others ignoring Maggie Thatcher

Ironically, it was probably the sports boycott that got through to the white general voting population the most as they were (and are) sports obsessed.

But the economic sanctions also had an effect. The oil sanctions really bit and it wasn't possible to buy (iirc from what my aunt told me) to buy petrol at the weekends, so travel plans had to be made carefully - or not drive. Plus there were reduced speed limits.

Maybe that's something along those lines should be considered in Europe, to reduce its reliance on Russian energy. I remember during the oil crisis of the 70s, speed limits being reduced to 50mph in the UK.

Onceuponatimeinalandfaraway · 18/03/2022 10:08

“ There won't be a nuclear war!!! If it happens we all die including all the Russians.
I actually believe we should be getting militarily involved but I can't say that without people saying how stupid. Putin is crazy but he is not the one handling nuclear weapons.”

I agree @eglantine7 and I’m getting very tired of people jumping to “omg is this it is this nuclear war starting I’m so scared” every time there is a slight change in appearances of actions or talks.

Things are going to change. we need the change to happen because If it doesn’t then what? I am absolutely certain that, as has been said by others, it won’t go from where we are today to nuclear war in an instant. It will be a slow escalation of other warfare including increased cyber messing and disinformation spreading and then alert levels raised and more sabre rattling before it gets to that point.

This war might go on for years. It may be Cold War 2 for years.

So please could those of you who jump straight to Panic mode please practice breathing and find coping techniques. Or visit your doctor. You know what helps for you. Wanting to take kids out of school and nursery, wanting to leave work, they’re over reactions and are not good for you or your kids. If your struggling already you need to think about how you’re going to cope long term? (I’m not saying don’t post here before anyone takes offence)..

It’s one thing to come on here and have a minute of omg I’m scared but I’m containing that in real life, it’s another to come on here in a panic. If reading these threads are making you panic because of what you’re reading then maybe before you come on each time think about why. Do you want to scare yourself? Do you need a little more in-depth thought about things the news may or may not have reported? Or would you be better with just the one news report?

I’m scared, I spent the first week doing nothing but reading threads and news about the war. It triggered some old stuff for me too. I had to make a conscious choice to stay away from various sources and certain types of thread. I had to choose to carry on my life as normal because nuclear war is not an imminent threat. It’s not really being talked about by people irl around me, which is I suspect how everyone is coping. I watch the news at 7pm, some days I pop on here to catch up on the thread other days I don’t. That depends on my daily activities and also on how I’m feeling. If I’m already having an anxious day then coming on here may be the worst thing I can do. Its up to me how I manage my anxiety. It’s hard to avoid the informative and speculative posts if you’re looking for support in this thread, so when my anxiety is higher I don’t come on this thread. It doesn’t hurt me to miss some info sometimes.

Is there a thread somewhere for posting those “omg I’m in a panic” posts so people can go there for support and reassurance rather than trying to find it in here among all the informative and speculative posts? Or is this thread the best place for that? Genuine questions, not saying anyone should stop posting here if this is the right place for you. But I’ve also noticed when one posts a panic post others pick up on that panic and spread it.

I’ll go back to being quiet and just reading now, sorry for interrupting.

Natsku · 18/03/2022 10:09

Finland is updating its security and defence policy now as well (copying Sweden, as usual), they're making a report to be submitted early next month. yle.fi/news/3-12364623
I wonder if it will recommend joining NATO

The airport repair facility near Lviv has been attacked. How much will this affect Ukraine's defence? Worrying.

terrywynne · 18/03/2022 10:09

@shreddednips

MagicFox, I don't know, because I'm not entirely sure what the substance of the agreement was. Assuming it wasn't a binding alliance, then the main issue is that Xi would have to admit he made a mistake in forming such close ties with Putin, which he may well feel makes him look weak. I still think economic stability will win out though.
It's so depressing that the fate of whole countries and the lives of ordinary people still comes down to pandering to the egos of male leaders. If there is an off ramp for Xi from his support for Putin that doesn't make him look weak then he might be able to influence an off ramp that doesn't make Putin look weak.

Honestly it makes me despair of humanity that this hasn't changed in thousands of years.

eglantine7 · 18/03/2022 10:10

I just fear it will develop a global South and East alliance against the West.
Although I'm Western I make it my business to boycott Israeli products like many middle Eastern nations, but Israel remain very powerful due to powerful alliances with the West.
There is also the victim mentality which the leaders will perpetuate among the population.

MarshaBradyo · 18/03/2022 10:19

It's so depressing that the fate of whole countries and the lives of ordinary people still comes down to pandering to the egos of male leaders. If there is an off ramp for Xi from his support for Putin that doesn't make him look weak then he might be able to influence an off ramp that doesn't make Putin look weak.

It is I agree. I was listening to someone rise talk about China being properly recognised as a super power but part of that is playing a role in world security long term.

I’m pleased to hear Biden and Xi are talking, they haven’t since November apparently (iirc). You can go two ways, invite people to the table or slam the door. I’m hoping that with China that former is still looking possible.

I take the earlier points from ex NATO man on Sky, I don’t know how this will go but this is a very difficult problem to solve for everyone right now - except Putin who is the problem.

elephantmarchingin · 18/03/2022 10:21

@Onceuponatimeinalandfaraway I think you post was aimed at me.

Yesterday there was a development that was scary. Planes taking off including doomsday planes is not usual and not reassuring and yes it caused panic.

I have also contributed to the threads so not just all panic!

There was this argument the other day and it's just not needed!

Bluebellsunderthetrees · 18/03/2022 10:21

@megynhelena I think you have written excellent posts.

Henry Kissinger ( Nobel Peace Prize winner) wrote this article in 2014 about Ukraine. EU/US/West/Russia and Ukraine itself all had
a part to play.
Interesting and sad to read now because no one really did play their part for peace. The first paragraph:

"Public discussion on Ukraine is all about confrontation. But do we know where we are going? In my life, I have seen four wars begun with great enthusiasm and public support, all of which we did not know how to end and from three of which we withdrew unilaterally. The test of policy is how it ends, not how it begins.

Far too often the Ukrainian issue is posed as a showdown: whether Ukraine joins the East or the West. But if Ukraine is to survive and thrive, it must not be either side’s outpost against the other — it should function as a bridge between them."

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/henry-kissinger-to-settle-the-ukraine-crisis-start-at-the-end/2014/03/05/46dad868-a496-11e3-8466-d34c451760b9_story.html

Natsku · 18/03/2022 10:22

Hope there's a good outcome from the talk with China. It must be a positive sign that their media was putting out more pro-Ukraine stuff.

MagicFox · 18/03/2022 10:25

@Natsku

Hope there's a good outcome from the talk with China. It must be a positive sign that their media was putting out more pro-Ukraine stuff.

That was a US facing channel though, I don't know if they actually showed that in China itself

OP posts:
MagicFox · 18/03/2022 10:26

Also, Reuters has reported that China sailed an aircraft carrier through the Taiwan strait before Biden chat. Not sure what the implications of that are

twitter.com/reuters/status/1504764272395620355?s=21

OP posts:
JesusInTheCabbageVan · 18/03/2022 10:27

Goodness knows what a McPutin Happy Meal will be like.

Grin Satisfaction guaranteed, or 15 years' imprisonment.

berlinbabylon · 18/03/2022 10:30

Yesterday there was a development that was scary. Planes taking off including doomsday planes is not usual and not reassuring and yes it caused panic

I don't understand why a few Russian planes flying around caused panic. What on earth is going on with people. It's a lovely day (in the south of the UK at least) - get out for some sunshine and calm down!

berlinbabylon · 18/03/2022 10:30

It's so depressing that the fate of whole countries and the lives of ordinary people still comes down to pandering to the egos of male leaders

Indeed - all those lives lost (on both sides) for the sake of Putin's ego Angry

eglantine7 · 18/03/2022 10:31

@Onceuponatimeinalandfaraway

“ There won't be a nuclear war!!! If it happens we all die including all the Russians. I actually believe we should be getting militarily involved but I can't say that without people saying how stupid. Putin is crazy but he is not the one handling nuclear weapons.”

I agree @eglantine7 and I’m getting very tired of people jumping to “omg is this it is this nuclear war starting I’m so scared” every time there is a slight change in appearances of actions or talks.

Things are going to change. we need the change to happen because If it doesn’t then what? I am absolutely certain that, as has been said by others, it won’t go from where we are today to nuclear war in an instant. It will be a slow escalation of other warfare including increased cyber messing and disinformation spreading and then alert levels raised and more sabre rattling before it gets to that point.

This war might go on for years. It may be Cold War 2 for years.

So please could those of you who jump straight to Panic mode please practice breathing and find coping techniques. Or visit your doctor. You know what helps for you. Wanting to take kids out of school and nursery, wanting to leave work, they’re over reactions and are not good for you or your kids. If your struggling already you need to think about how you’re going to cope long term? (I’m not saying don’t post here before anyone takes offence)..

It’s one thing to come on here and have a minute of omg I’m scared but I’m containing that in real life, it’s another to come on here in a panic. If reading these threads are making you panic because of what you’re reading then maybe before you come on each time think about why. Do you want to scare yourself? Do you need a little more in-depth thought about things the news may or may not have reported? Or would you be better with just the one news report?

I’m scared, I spent the first week doing nothing but reading threads and news about the war. It triggered some old stuff for me too. I had to make a conscious choice to stay away from various sources and certain types of thread. I had to choose to carry on my life as normal because nuclear war is not an imminent threat. It’s not really being talked about by people irl around me, which is I suspect how everyone is coping. I watch the news at 7pm, some days I pop on here to catch up on the thread other days I don’t. That depends on my daily activities and also on how I’m feeling. If I’m already having an anxious day then coming on here may be the worst thing I can do. Its up to me how I manage my anxiety. It’s hard to avoid the informative and speculative posts if you’re looking for support in this thread, so when my anxiety is higher I don’t come on this thread. It doesn’t hurt me to miss some info sometimes.

Is there a thread somewhere for posting those “omg I’m in a panic” posts so people can go there for support and reassurance rather than trying to find it in here among all the informative and speculative posts? Or is this thread the best place for that? Genuine questions, not saying anyone should stop posting here if this is the right place for you. But I’ve also noticed when one posts a panic post others pick up on that panic and spread it.

I’ll go back to being quiet and just reading now, sorry for interrupting.

It is important to get a grip because really its poor Ukrainians we should be worried about and panicking for. We have had the privilege of not having been threatened in so many years. Others around the world haven't has that privilege. NATO also killed many many civilians in bombardments from the sky in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya... Our media doesn't allow us to sympathise with them, most people don't even register it. Don't get me started about Palestinians.
ScrollingLeaves · 18/03/2022 10:32

@shreddednips
“ Goodness knows what a McPutin Happy Meal will be like. ”😂

AgnesWestern · 18/03/2022 10:33

I know is the Metro, so not a reliable source but I just saw this headline:

UK could become Ukraine’s ‘protector’ as part of a peace deal with Russia

Not entirely sure how I feel about this if it’s true.

Natsku · 18/03/2022 10:35

That was a US facing channel though, I don't know if they actually showed that in China itself

That's true, need someone in China to let us know what the media is telling them there.

purpleboy · 18/03/2022 10:35

@Onceuponatimeinalandfaraway

I understand what your saying, and it's great that you can and are finding ways or reducing your anxiety, but not everyone can.

I think these threads have been a good mix of factual current and historical information which so many of us have learnt from, and genuine emotions, which do include fear and anxiety.

There are a few regular posters who are understandably very fearful, they comment and other posters support them and give them reasons to not be so fearful, this to me is people supporting others during a time of need.
Whilst I don't really post my fears, I am probably one of the more anxious people reading these threads and I get a lot of comfort from the more knowledgeable posters reassurance.

MagicFox · 18/03/2022 10:36

@AgnesWestern

I know is the Metro, so not a reliable source but I just saw this headline:

UK could become Ukraine’s ‘protector’ as part of a peace deal with Russia

Not entirely sure how I feel about this if it’s true.

Summary account from BBC here. It's mooted but nothing really concrete there

Ukraine Invasion Part 14
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