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Ukrainian invasion part 13

999 replies

Alexandra2001 · 15/03/2022 07:40

Seems to be required.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Ijsbear · 15/03/2022 12:08

I think the arrogance of the USA was / is breathtaking when you look just under the surface. But it's still better than some other regimes.

Danish or Scandanavian culture should take over the world!

Over 44000 have signed up to refugee home scheme

Yes, tho am not in the UK. The sheer number of people who've registered here though means that matching family / host is much much slower than usual.

Yeahthat · 15/03/2022 12:09

@MarshaBradyo

It’s weird how Cummings has become the person for the left and now he has takers in that sphere.

He plays anyone who listens like a fiddle

So we shouldn't accept the message unless we like the messenger? Or he's "our person"?

He's made his usual dig at Boris and offered his observations on a situation that everyone's talking about. I don't see something deeply sinister or machiavellian in that.

TheSillyMastiff · 15/03/2022 12:10

@Alexandra2001

When i used to race, 13 was always pinned on upside down... old habits!
Most hotels also don't have a room 13. 🤣 Superstition at its finest.
Natsku · 15/03/2022 12:17

@MarshaBradyo

Over 44000 have signed up to refugee home scheme

Has anyone here? Out of interest

Do other countries do the financial support

It seems they don't do financial support in Finland but the main plan is to house refugees in reception centres instead of private homes anyway, so they can have access to all the support they will need. I think that's better in the immediate term at least, then after that best if they can be supported into their own homes rather than sleeping in people's spare rooms - the UK ought to repurpose all those empty oligarch houses for refugee housing!
HappyWinter · 15/03/2022 12:17

He's made his usual dig at Boris and offered his observations on a situation that everyone's talking about. I don't see something deeply sinister or machiavellian in that.

The problem is, he is the one who helped put Boris Johnson there in the first place, and he wasn't singing like a canary about how awful he thought Boris was when he was working for him. He was actively helping to keep him in power. We would have been better off with another leader, Rory Stewart was much better, or even Jeremy Hunt would have been more capable.

blueshoes · 15/03/2022 12:19

Thanks for the new thread

HappyWinter · 15/03/2022 12:20

It's hard to trust what Dominic Cummings says.

MagicFox · 15/03/2022 12:21

Russia cuts gas pipeline to Europe

twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1503638287558529032?s=21

DGRossetti · 15/03/2022 12:23

[quote Yeahthat]@DGRossetti

Exactly. As the saying goes - there are no permanent allies or enemies in international politics; the only permanent is self-interest (or something along those lines).

The government has to make rational choices to maximise our self-interest whilse balancing that with our ideals.

Another example of this is US officials recently meeting with Venezuelan officials in Caracas.[/quote]
It seems we are seeing a reshaping of world alliances at breakneck speed. Something that was always a possibility (if not inevitable).

It's a very common failing - or rather it's a common cause of failure - to assume that everything in the world remains the same around you in response to external events. I call it the "all about me" syndrome.

MarshaBradyo · 15/03/2022 12:24

So we shouldn't accept the message unless we like the messenger?

I would absolutely consider who the messenger is, yes.

But as I say he’s doing blog posts rather than continuing to wreak havoc on British society, so silver lining.

Yeahthat · 15/03/2022 12:26

@MarshaBradyo

Consider it in terms of bias or agenda, yes. Once you've accounted for that, if you find yourself agreeing should you say - "Oh but I'm sorry I don't like him, he's not one of my team" ?

In what way did he wreak havoc on British society?

BreadInCaptivity · 15/03/2022 12:30

[quote MagicFox]Russia cuts gas pipeline to Europe

twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1503638287558529032?s=21[/quote]

Which means it's also cut off its own revenue stream.

Wonder how long it can afford to do that?

Yeahthat · 15/03/2022 12:30

@HappyWinter

He's made his usual dig at Boris and offered his observations on a situation that everyone's talking about. I don't see something deeply sinister or machiavellian in that.

The problem is, he is the one who helped put Boris Johnson there in the first place, and he wasn't singing like a canary about how awful he thought Boris was when he was working for him. He was actively helping to keep him in power. We would have been better off with another leader, Rory Stewart was much better, or even Jeremy Hunt would have been more capable.

Stewart in particular is flavour of the month. Easy to be liked and have all the answers when you're not in power. I'll judge politicians when they're leaving office. Not on the flowing words and unequivocal solutions they offer on the way in.
MarshaBradyo · 15/03/2022 12:32

He is pretty good at what he does I’ll give him that but I’m glad he’s out of the sphere of influence.

His campaign for Brexit was successful and I do wonder where we’d be without that (I’m over losing the vote btw by now)

He’s someone who says he likes and aims for chaos and bringing down the system. He’s quite good at trying to do that.

It’s not so much about teams or liking but what his objectives are and what happens when he gets close to people in power.

Fine if people like reading his blogs, I can’t join in as I don’t support his views enough to do that.

MarshaBradyo · 15/03/2022 12:32

Post to Yeahthat

Yeahthat · 15/03/2022 12:39

@MarshaBradyo

I also voted against brexit, so it's not like I'm generally in agreement with his views.

I do agree that our system - everything from government itself to public services - is failing in so many ways though, and has to be radically remade.

JacquelineCarlyle · 15/03/2022 12:48

I find these threads so informative - thank you to all the knowledgeable posters!

I hope the Russian editor is ok, but sadly don't hold much hope for that happening. Such a brave lady. Wonder how her colleagues feel?

RedToothBrush · 15/03/2022 13:02

Why travel to meet?why not via video link? Seems unusual. And aren’t they all putting themselves and zelensky at risk by being more visible?

Its a risk but I'd guess a calculated one.

The security assessments are all saying that Russia can not advance further at this moment in time to Kyiv. The Ukrainians are holding steady and there hasn't been movement for several days. The most they can do is bomb in the meantime.

And theres been missile and plane counting going on. They clearly think the Russians don't currently have the capability in place to burn Kyiv to the ground like they have in other places. At least not yet.

This creates a bit of a problem for Putin too though. Can he risk the killing of these leaders? If he does, even if its in a warzone, he is seriously risking 'an incident' with NATO. They've publicly announced they are going afterall. Is that what he wants? I doubt it. An 'accidental' war is always the risk here, but I do not believe that Putin wants to do anything thats not on his terms either.

The leaders will be wanting to look Zelensky in the eye, cos quite frankly its starting to look a bit awkward. Them going to him is necessary rather than him looking like he's constantly begging. They are giving him power and a photo op to keep morale up, rather than him having to do all the leg work. Plus they know the risk of them having to 'do a Zelensky' if they don't win this and get this right. Its much easier and safer to do it for a one off than for 20 days and nights (and however long it takes). If Zelensky leaves, its a gift to the Russians to say he's fled and gives them the opportunity to declare another leader.

My guess is this will continue for sometime but the priority for the Russian now if they are running out of firepower is to consolidate and to try to legitimise what they have. Thats suppression, people disappearing and stooges installed. Then talk of 'referendums'

I note the following:

Anna Myroniuk @AnnaMyroniuk
1/5 Amid attempts of the Russian army to hold a fake referendum in occupied Kherson and launch a so-called People’s Republic there — the exact thing Russia did to Crimea, Donetsk & Luhansk in 2014 to “justify” its invasion — I want to tell you a story.

2/5 It is about western journalists and their patronizing behavior as if they know better what really happens in Ukraine. A few years ago I was at a lecture on journalism ethics at City, UoL. The guest lecturer, then-Sky News anchor and reporter Andrew Wilson, was speaking.

3/5 “You must be impartial in your reporting,” Wilson said. And I agree. But then he said something that made me tremble. Talking about standards, balance, and unbiasedness when reporting on conflicts, he said: “In Crimea people voted to be with Russia. That’s their choice.”

4/5 He said, it’s the decision of Crimea we must respect. Two students raised their hands. I, a Ukrainian, & Tata, a Georgian. We both said that he was dead wrong. I added that any “vote” held by the occupying force on the seized territory is illegitimate, NOT free or democratic.

5/5 He cut me off saying “it’s polemic” and moved on. As Russia intensifies its attempts to bite parts of my country and forge "referendums" to justify it, I can’t help but think of Wilson's words. I want western journalists do their research better and watch what they say.

Journalism is about checking the weather rather than accepting different people have different opinions about the weather. Yet this seems to have been utterly forgotten in the hubris of having to 'be kind' or 'be inclusive'. Its fucked in the head. If a dickhead goes murdering people, you don't do balanced arguement about how he was a nice bloke on Tuesdays and is simply misunderstood.

Another example:
Natalia Antonova @NataliaAntonova
Putin: “I’d like the Russian Empire back. I am building up troops. Now I am invading my sovereign neighbor. Now my troops are targeting civilians.”

People on Twitter: “Who knows what he wants? The Russian soul is mysterious. And anyway, there’s two sides to everything.”

So how this 'legitimisation' process is reported matters. And the tone we give to the 'misunderstood' matters.

This isn't about NATO. Its about Putin and Putin's power and it always has been.

By the same token, foreign leaders going to Zelensky, give him legitimacy too. At a crucial point. Zelensky himself looks tired and desparate. And quite frankly in need of a hug. He needs a pick me up, so he can carry on.

EITTYBreck · 15/03/2022 13:03

.

DuncinToffee · 15/03/2022 13:03

Different person

Russian TV presenter 'quits and leaves country'

A news presenter from one of Russia's most important TV channels has resigned and left the country, according to reports.

"I left [Russia] first because I was afraid they would not let me go just like that, then I submitted my resignation," Lilia Gildeyeva from NTV told prominent blogger Ilya Varlamov.

Gildeyeva was an anchor on Segodnya (Today), the flagship evening news programme on NTV – Russia's third most popular TV station, which is owned by gas giant Gazprom and is firmly pro-Kremlin.

In 2021, Gildeyeva was included in President Putin's official list of journalists who received thanks for "achievements in developing mass media". And in 2008, she was thanked by Putin for "information provision and active social activity to develop civil society in the Russian Federation

BBC

BreadInCaptivity · 15/03/2022 13:05

@JacquelineCarlyle

I find these threads so informative - thank you to all the knowledgeable posters!

I hope the Russian editor is ok, but sadly don't hold much hope for that happening. Such a brave lady. Wonder how her colleagues feel?

Very nervous I'd imagine. At some point someone is going to notice anomalies in the reporting and the number of dead Russian soldiers (and especially conscripts).

I wonder how many more presenters are wondering if they should get out now?

From the BBC:

"A news presenter from one of Russia's most important TV channels has resigned and left the country, according to reports.
"I left [Russia] first because I was afraid they would not let me go just like that, then I submitted my resignation," Lilia Gildeyeva from NTV told prominent blogger Ilya Varlamov.
Gildeyeva was an anchor on Segodnya (Today), the flagship evening news programme on NTV – Russia's third most popular TV station, which is owned by gas giant Gazprom and is firmly pro-Kremlin.
In 2021, Gildeyeva was included in President Putin's official list of journalists who received thanks for "achievements in developing mass media". And in 2008, she was thanked by Putin for "information provision and active social activity to develop civil society in the Russian Federation".
Gildeyeva's reported departure follows the anti-war protest by a news editor on state-controlled Channel 1 last night that we have been telling you about."

BreadInCaptivity · 15/03/2022 13:13

By the same token, foreign leaders going to Zelensky, give him legitimacy too. At a crucial point. Zelensky himself looks tired and desparate. And quite frankly in need of a hug. He needs a pick me up, so he can carry on.

I think you could also add that's it's an F you to Putin.

You still haven't taken the capital and we believe it's safe enough, despite your military machine to travel there because we have faith in Ukrainians forces to keep us safe.

RedToothBrush · 15/03/2022 13:16

OK. Incoming Good News!

AFP News Agency @AFP
#UPDATE Some 2,000 civilian cars have been able to drive out of the besieged Ukrainian city of Mariupol along a humanitarian evacuation route, authorities say

However the Deputy PM Vereshchuk has said they are still not able to get the aid convoy IN to Mariupol.

2,000 cars would be about 10,000 people. Out of 300,000. Its still a small number, but if they get out its still something and it does look like progress is being made on this. Slowly.

Ijsbear · 15/03/2022 13:17

[quote MagicFox]Russia cuts gas pipeline to Europe

twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1503638287558529032?s=21[/quote]
Oh boy.

RedToothBrush · 15/03/2022 13:18

Tim White @TWMCLtd
#Kyiv mayor Vitaliy Klichko (Klitschko) imposes another curfew on #Ukraine's capital.
It will kick in at 8pm this evening and last 35 hours.

It's the first midweek 24+ hour total curfew for the city.

Speculation Ukranian intelligence is expecting a full Russian attack; I doubt that.

When are the VIPs arriving again?