Page 24 | Ukrainian invasion part 13

Ijsbear · 16/03/2022 17:55

Calm, agnes. Steady breathing for 30 breaths, go outside and walk around.

DrBlackbird · 16/03/2022 17:57

The US Senate is pretty clear about the intelligence on Russian interference in their elections.

RUSSIAN ACTIVE MEASURE;S CAMPAIGNS AND INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 U.S. ELECTION. VOLUME 2: RUSSIA'S USE OF SOCIAL MEDIA

Shame the UK Parliament is so laissez-faire by comparison. Positively chilled about it…

MarshaBradyo · 16/03/2022 18:00

@AgnesWestern

Would US drones = an act of war? Sorry just panicking here.

Not sure they’d be any different and US have been careful so far - eg planes situation

shreddednips · 16/03/2022 18:01

@AgnesWestern

Would US drones = an act of war? Sorry just panicking here.

Try to stay calm if you can. It is the right thing to do. I really, really doubt that drones will be the step that triggers a direct conflict when the absolutely enormous action so far has triggered nothing, apart from strong words.

Papertyger · 16/03/2022 18:03

tried

Ljsbear.

Tried to influence.

Anyone anywhere can try anything.
Re trump I was using him as an example based on his personality and the context that no one thought his presidential bid was really serious nor that anyone would take him seriously.

Everyone still has a vote.
I think we all recognise that the system isn't perfect but everyone has a vote and can use that if they wish.

Rich or poor, highly educated or not.

DrBlackbird · 16/03/2022 18:08

That was Vol 2, this link is to Vol 1

www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report_Volume1.pdf

Igotjelly · 16/03/2022 18:10

@AgnesWestern

Would US drones = an act of war? Sorry just panicking here.

If by act of war you mean are Russia about to attack the US directly I would highly suspect that the answer is no. You really need to be looking after your mental health 💐

ParsleySageRosemary · 16/03/2022 18:12

but everyone has a vote and can use that if they wish.

A vote between crap options chosen for you in a system where it’s only offered after issues have been spun and propaganda’d to ensure the correct result, or have you forgotten the Brexit bus and ‘Boris’?

YorkshireLondonMiss · 16/03/2022 18:13

@AgnesWestern if it helps…turkey have been sending drones since day 1 from what I understand so hopefully it wouldn’t be interpreted how you think it would.

Igotjelly · 16/03/2022 18:14

I’ve got to say I do worry a great deal about the long term impact of pumping weapons into a country that is likely to be on its knees for a while. Inevitably some of these will fall into unsavoury hands.

Iwasfeelingepic · 16/03/2022 18:14

Does anyone else just feel like enough is enough? We are getting reports of 100s of people sheltering in the theatre which has just been bombed and who knows how many casualties, Russian troops firing on people queuing to buy bread and God knows all the other atrocities that have been committed, when do we say enough is enough & just DO something.
Some people are saying Zolensky is being unreasonable asking for NFZs etc, but why the hell shouldn't he? His people are dying and the country being blown apart. Wouldn't we want our government asking for the same thing, no matter how many times it's being denied.
I know deep down NATO getting involved may be the worse thing, but right now I just think, get in there and help. I saw pictures of people sitting in a bunker & there was a boy about 9 who looked completely crestfallen & hopeless, while my daughter is sitting on het PC happy as
I'm sorry for the emotional post and yes I know what the outcomes may be but I really do think it's time to fight back. I also know that I am probably on my own with this.

hatebeak · 16/03/2022 18:18

If you know what the outcomes could be, then you must see why NATO cannot get involved in the way you imply. It can't be an emotional response. I don't know what the answer is though.

Papertyger · 16/03/2022 18:18

Dr...

I hope you aren't going to the trouble to share links with me?

I know Russia and all enemies try a and dabble and upset the status quo?
It's nothing new?

It's the extent people think it's actually working and turning votes.

Some people seem to think people over a certain age should be see denied a vote. Some on here think people should have a certain level of education, I've seen many instances of people trying to deny people they don't agree with a vote.
The irony!

I have far more faith in people, we are not zombies walking around gormlessly absorbing any old shit someone chucks at us.

Looking at the microcosm on here, what happend to the supposed russian bots?
I've seen wonderful responses on Reddit and twitter.
People know bs a mile away.

ParsleySageRosemary · 16/03/2022 18:19

I sympathise Iwasfeelingepic. This is a horrific thing to witness, and I am not surprised they are calling for help.

Ukraine was so close to being an EU partner.

dibly · 16/03/2022 18:20

@Iwasfeelingepic you’re not alone, I’ve never felt so powerless and it’s awful. God love Zelensky, how he can carry on pleading given what looks like our indifference

Papertyger · 16/03/2022 18:21

Parsley I don't agree and I don't agree with trying to spin Brexit as something anti democratic When it's the essence of democracy.

MarshaBradyo · 16/03/2022 18:23

@Iwasfeelingepic

Does anyone else just feel like enough is enough? We are getting reports of 100s of people sheltering in the theatre which has just been bombed and who knows how many casualties, Russian troops firing on people queuing to buy bread and God knows all the other atrocities that have been committed, when do we say enough is enough & just DO something. Some people are saying Zolensky is being unreasonable asking for NFZs etc, but why the hell shouldn't he? His people are dying and the country being blown apart. Wouldn't we want our government asking for the same thing, no matter how many times it's being denied. I know deep down NATO getting involved may be the worse thing, but right now I just think, get in there and help. I saw pictures of people sitting in a bunker & there was a boy about 9 who looked completely crestfallen & hopeless, while my daughter is sitting on het PC happy as I'm sorry for the emotional post and yes I know what the outcomes may be but I really do think it's time to fight back. I also know that I am probably on my own with this.

I don’t share this view but I understand why you have it

ClaudineClare · 16/03/2022 18:27

[quote dibly]@Iwasfeelingepic you’re not alone, I’ve never felt so powerless and it’s awful. God love Zelensky, how he can carry on pleading given what looks like our indifference[/quote]
I don't think there is indifference at all. Not amongst ordinary people and not amongst the governments of of Europe. It will be no good for any of us, least of all Ukraine, if we escalate this conflict. Zelensky understands this, if you listen to his speech today.

Cool heads are needed, as has been said repeatedly on this thread.

Motherdare · 16/03/2022 18:29

I know deep down NATO getting involved may be the worse thing, but right now I just think, get in there and help

It would be the worst thing. It would not help Ukraine. It would escalate the war. It would affect more countries and all our lives would be impacted. It just wouldn’t help even though we all want something to stop the horror. Zelensky knows this.

holliem91 · 16/03/2022 18:30

Two thoughts this evening:

My first thought is: I understand why the US is sending in all that military aid and Ukraine isn't going to get a NFZ so that's second best but is it not going to push Russia towards using chemical/bio weapons? Or even push China towards getting involved militarily?

My second though: That's a lot of equipment the US are sending, so why have we been seeing so many positives surrounding peace talks/negotiations? We know the situation in Ukraine is bad but it did somehow see a light at the end of the tunnel.

I probably am just being naive but these two things are bothering me.

I just see this as Putin being back into a corner (rightly so) and wondered if this could escalate the situation.

holliem91 · 16/03/2022 18:32

@YorkshireLondonMiss

I thought that to re Turkey supplying drones. I just don't know if these drones may be somewhat better technology and also the fact they haven't specified the amount they're sending in.

ParsleySageRosemary · 16/03/2022 18:32

@Papertyger

Parsley I don't agree and I don't agree with trying to spin Brexit as something anti democratic When it's the essence of democracy.

Then you really need to look up the lies that were told, because that was what was meant by a weakening democracy.

Democracy requires information and education, and the attacks on both have been relentless over my lifespan.

This is not the same country that I was born into 40-odd years ago. It is far far richer: but most people are poorer. They have been told how living in a system where the very richest can suck the wealth out is so superior, that it is right and proper that the poorest should work for nothing, that it is perfectly acceptable for wealth to be allotted to the most vocal.

But that’s my last word here on the subject as it is supposed to be a thread about Ukraine, the country currently paying the price for being the eastern border of Europe and the only state I’m aware of in the world that gave up (as opposed to never acquiring) its major weapons.

Yeahthat · 16/03/2022 18:33

@holliem91

Even if there is a peace deal, we should continue to build up Ukraine's military so that it's an effective deterrent to any future attack.

ClaudineClare · 16/03/2022 18:33

holliem9 maybe to demonstrate to Putin that Ukraine won't weaken until there is concrete progress on negotiations, and something tangible being offered?

PippinStar · 16/03/2022 18:34

@Iwasfeelingepic

Does anyone else just feel like enough is enough? We are getting reports of 100s of people sheltering in the theatre which has just been bombed and who knows how many casualties, Russian troops firing on people queuing to buy bread and God knows all the other atrocities that have been committed, when do we say enough is enough & just DO something. Some people are saying Zolensky is being unreasonable asking for NFZs etc, but why the hell shouldn't he? His people are dying and the country being blown apart. Wouldn't we want our government asking for the same thing, no matter how many times it's being denied. I know deep down NATO getting involved may be the worse thing, but right now I just think, get in there and help. I saw pictures of people sitting in a bunker & there was a boy about 9 who looked completely crestfallen & hopeless, while my daughter is sitting on het PC happy as I'm sorry for the emotional post and yes I know what the outcomes may be but I really do think it's time to fight back. I also know that I am probably on my own with this.

I’ve been feeling like this since about day three, so I do get it. But I work with victims of violence who often say how people watched on while they asked for help and did a little but not enough, and I think it’s triggering something related to that in me (on a global scale).

Of course, I also understand the argument for holding back on the level of involvement, but that wouldn’t be my preference (I also have concerns about the appearance of Western “weakness” as many analysts and experts have commented on). So no, you’re not alone