Ukraine invasion discussion thread part 11

[ScatteredMama82]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4499310-Ukraine-invasion-discussion-thread-part-10?pg=40

This article has been flagged up elsewhere as perhaps being of interest:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-can-i-speak-to-my-pro-war-russian-friends-about-ukraine-

[quote WhathaveIdoneagain]TBF it is pretty paranoid on both sides: metro.co.uk/2022/03/07/ukraine-peace-negotiator-put-to-death-after-claims-he-was-russia-spy-16227598/[/quote]
You're not kidding

www.jpost.com/international/article-701001

Extract
Russia-Ukraine war: US, G7, EU to strip Russia of 'most favored nation' status - source
Stripping Russia of its favored nation status paves the way for the United States and its allies to impose tariffs on a wide range of Russian goods.

The United States, together with the Group of Seven nations and the European Union, will move on Friday to revoke Russia's "most favored nation" status over its invasion of Ukraine, multiple people familiar with the situation told Reuters.
President Joe Biden will announce the plans at the White House at 10:15 a.m. EST (1515 GMT), said one of the sources, speaking on condition of anonymity.
The White House said Biden would announce "actions to continue to hold Russia accountable for its unprovoked and unjustified war on Ukraine," but gave no details.
Russia calls its actions in Ukraine a "special operation."
Stripping Russia of its favored nation status paves the way for the United States and its allies to impose tariffs on a wide range of Russian goods, which would further ratchet up pressure on an economy that is already heading into a "deep recession."

www.omfif.org/2022/03/ukraine-conflict-cripples-g20-but-unifies-g7/

Interesting article on G7 vs G20

@PestorPeston

Sergey Beseda, head of the 5th Service (Service of Operational Information and International Relations) of the FSB has been arrested and detained. Rumors in Moscow that he was fomenting an overthrow of Putin.

Remember that story about 3 assassination attempts on Zelensky being foiled because of FSB leaks/traitors.

Regardless of whether there were or not, this is how you weaken your enemy - by sewing paranoia and distrust everywhere. If we're really lucky, Putin will do most of the heavy lifting for the West by removing his most effective personnel. Possibly with a bullet. Not for the squeamish.

Wait till Putin finds out Lukashenko is a western mole.

@Hillsmakeyoustrong
So Article 5 is the difference between Ukrainian and NATO lives? I really struggle with this. Also... the end of NATO... isnt that Putin's end game? Will he not just continue to threaten nuclear? It is working well for him. Is Article 5 enough of a deterrent for Putin in the future? I doubt it

Yep being saying this for ages - if we wont intervene because that risks Nuclear escalation - no matter what Putin does, then that applies equally if he invaded a Nato country.

Putin is apparently upset because of foreign mercenaries and NATO weapons in Ukraine... yet despite his (veiled) warning he would unleash nukes, if the west tried to resist him, he hasn't... because he, his family and his high command don't all want to die in a nuclear firestorm - he is a dictator and what he craves is power, Russia (and the RoW) ending up as dust is no good to him.

Is Zelensky still asking for a no fly zone? It has he dropped it now? I’ve been staying west from the news and social media for a few days.

@NewModelArmyMayhem18

There were loads of problems with Putin in that documentary.
It's fascinating actually, a great insight into how fragile their world is. It's on Netflix? The countess and the Russian billionaire.

Eventually she turned her back on him.

People like him, Roman a , I wonder if they are trying to band together to form a coup?

@Hillsmakeyoustrong

So Article 5 is the difference between Ukrainian and NATO lives? I really struggle with this. Also... the end of NATO... isnt that Putin's end game? Will he not just continue to threaten nuclear? It is working well for him. Is Article 5 enough of a deterrent for Putin in the future? I doubt it.

It makes a difference but also Dreaming has posted some good information below on the situation re escalation

Read that rather than the more heightened stuff for calmer analysis

Agnes he's still asking , every time you can hear the desperation in his voice .

It's not being given but some commentators feel there are work around, leasing planes to him , bonds. We did this with USA in war

[quote Alexandra2001]@Hillsmakeyoustrong
So Article 5 is the difference between Ukrainian and NATO lives? I really struggle with this. Also... the end of NATO... isnt that Putin's end game? Will he not just continue to threaten nuclear? It is working well for him. Is Article 5 enough of a deterrent for Putin in the future? I doubt it

Yep being saying this for ages - if we wont intervene because that risks Nuclear escalation - no matter what Putin does, then that applies equally if he invaded a Nato country.

Putin is apparently upset because of foreign mercenaries and NATO weapons in Ukraine... yet despite his (veiled) warning he would unleash nukes, if the west tried to resist him, he hasn't... because he, his family and his high command don't all want to die in a nuclear firestorm - he is a dictator and what he craves is power, Russia (and the RoW) ending up as dust is no good to him.[/quote]
Absolutely. Russia, the Fatherland is above Putin. It is everything.

I do not believe the Russian warlords will unleash nuclear weapons.

Putin really pressing on with shutting Russia off from any outside news sources

Polina Ivanova
@polinaivanovva
BREAKING - Russia just started process of banning Instagram.
It’s huge because this is really a much loved platform in Russia and also the source of income for lots of small businesses across the country. And for young Moscow elites it’s.. everything

Mary Ilyushina
@maryilyushina
This seemed like a matter of time but still significant: Russian Prosecutor General's Office demanded to restrict Instagram in Russia. And also recognize Meta (manages Facebook, WhatsApp and Instagram) as an extremist organization and ban its work in Russia.

Mary Ilyushina
@maryilyushina
I mean hugely significant -- WhatsApp is the most popular messenger in Russia, it takes up nearly 60% of all messenger internet traffic. We are talking tens of millions of people having limited access to comms, and for a lot of them VPNs are not familiar tech.

Mary Ilyushina
@maryilyushina
Instagram, which the authorities already explicitly asked to restrict in Russia, is also a hugely important with its chats and stories but also an irreplaceable tool for a myriad of small and medium businesses across the country.

Strangely positive post on sky news today on this one. Have thought that Putins words etc have become less threatening recently are more looking to the future of how Russia bounce back from this.

So Article 5 is the difference between Ukrainian and NATO lives?

Article 5 is the difference between NATO intervening in a war between two countries or not intervening. It is a mutual agreement that those countries would also intervene if another country attacks us.

Our failure to get involved by sending aircraft (with pilots) or army troops is not a statement on the value of Ukainian lives, it is a recognition that while we cannot be the world's police.

There have been absolutely loads of wars since NATO began. And in the vast majority we did not intervene.

@Tuba437

Strangely positive post on sky news today on this one. Have thought that Putins words etc have become less threatening recently are more looking to the future of how Russia bounce back from this.

Yes he's a good man really. Just terribly misunderstood.

Obviously the attacks in Ukraine are still awful etc. But from putting nuclear forces on alaert and accusing us of declaring war, those remarks definitely seems to have calmed down.

NATO is a mutual defence pact

So an attack on one member brings all members to its defence.

It's not a 'world police'

@RoseAndRose

NATO is a mutual defence pact

So an attack on one member brings all members to its defence.

It's not a 'world police'

Isn’t that the same as Facebook’s pp just said differently

My apologies for a useless post

@Tuba437 I hope it stays that way. I am really hoping for some kind of off ramp and that things don't escalate

It’s not useless but I thought you were correcting what she said

I haven't seen it mentioned on here yet, but Pokémon go has also been shut off in Russia (apparently it just shows a blank map if you can even log in). According to the (allegedly) Russian poster I saw talking about it, it is common knowledge there that they are being sanctioned for an illegal invasion

Well clearing 50% of the noise from Russian bots from the internet can't be a bad thing.

Personally (and I posted this over a week ago) the moment Putin started getting more hysterical over "what he'd do" I felt it was game over for him. You don't make bigger threats when you are getting your way. For me it's proof positive that whatever "the West" is doing is broadly - if unbelievably - along the right track.

@Tuba437

Obviously the attacks in Ukraine are still awful etc. But from putting nuclear forces on alaert and accusing us of declaring war, those remarks definitely seems to have calmed down.

I agree, any step down in language and threat is welcome at this point

When I heard that the Russians were rounding up and taking away Ukrainians in places they have occupied I had assumed it was the military but apparently plain-clothes Russian agencies are involved. Echoes of Stalinism.

@DGRossetti

Well clearing 50% of the noise from Russian bots from the internet can't be a bad thing.

Personally (and I posted this over a week ago) the moment Putin started getting more hysterical over "what he'd do" I felt it was game over for him. You don't make bigger threats when you are getting your way. For me it's proof positive that whatever "the West" is doing is broadly - if unbelievably - along the right track.

I think it's part of his modus operandi. HIgh threats to get people scared, especially as he's been proven to be willing to carry his threats out. Part of his outstanding knack of psychological warfare.

As for it becoming Stalinist again, I think that's a dead cert. Somethign in between a totalitarian state and a mafia state.

If there was a humanitarian corridor opening up to Russia I think I'd be scared that going there would lead to some sort of camp, re-education and possibly separation from my children.