Ukraine invasion discussion thread part 11

[ScatteredMama82]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4499310-Ukraine-invasion-discussion-thread-part-10?pg=40

@Feelingthepinch22 - sorry

"much less affected "

People seem to forget that a chemical weapon was used on British soil and sod all was done about it. I can't see a Novichok attack in Ukraine being the trigger for NATO involvement

I too don't believe that chemical weapons would be the red line for Nato. Lots of outcry and condemnation but after what happened in sainsbury and then in Syria with chemical weapons I can't see us getting involved here if they are used.

Filippo Grandi UN High Commissioner

The number of refugees from Ukraine — tragically — has reached today 2.5 million.

We also estimate that about two million people are displaced inside Ukraine.

Millions forced to leave their homes by this senseless war.

2.5 million: that’s equivalent to well over 1 in 20 of Ukraine's population.

I read that article in the Irish newspaper, just remember that planning permission for the expansion to the Russian embassy was applied for in 2015 - so they must have been planning it even before then. It is worrying, I wonder how in many other countries they are setting up this type of facility?

@Tuba437

I too don't believe that chemical weapons would be the red line for Nato. Lots of outcry and condemnation but after what happened in sainsbury and then in Syria with chemical weapons I can't see us getting involved here if they are used.

We've made that blatantly clear to him, Ukr isn't in NATO, so he can act with impunity, use whatever means will "get the job done" and the death toll is inconsequential to him or us.

I've just seen an interview on Sky with Boris saying he will not intervene militarily even if Putin uses chemical weapons. He did seem genuinely upset denying Zelenskyy's request. I couldn't bear it personally.

@CrunchyCarrot

I read that article in the Irish newspaper, just remember that planning permission for the expansion to the Russian embassy was applied for in 2015 - so they must have been planning it even before then. It is worrying, I wonder how in many other countries they are setting up this type of facility?

I'm confused.....was this a nuclear bunker?

Can I just ask, at risk of sounding naive (which I am on warfare) would NATO actually intervene if say Poland was being invaded and Putin made the same threats? They are a NATO country, so technically we would, but I do wonder whether we would in the face of nuclear threat?

@Hillsmakeyoustrong

Can I just ask, at risk of sounding naive (which I am on warfare) would NATO actually intervene if say Poland was being invaded and Putin made the same threats? They are a NATO country, so technically we would, but I do wonder whether we would in the face of nuclear threat?

Natohave made it clear that their current aim is to stop the conflict spreading outside of Ukraine. However if Poland were invaded they would invoke article 5 which would mean all Nato countries would get involved.

@MagicFox unlikely a nuclear one. More a secret area to conduct covert operations. As a PP has said, in the event of a nuclear war Ireland will be way down the list of areas to get hit because of their neutrality.

@Furries

Just to add, am emailing my MP tomorrow re highlighting the potential for older people to have the option of being housed rurally. Surely there is untapped potential rather than this “only in cities” applicants nonsense.

I wonder if, for women and children in particular, it's easier to provide support services like translators, schools, medical care etc. if people are in the infrastructure of a city.

We had some Syrian refugees who were settled near us (semi rural) and they found it very difficult. It’s alright in your own rural area but cities have transport, more support services, larger and more supermarkets with more familiar products, places of worship, colleges, schools etc.

@dreamingbohemian I think your solution is pretty much what will happen. I believe most of that is what Putin wanted from the start.

I can't believe the US thought it was a good idea to have a "biological research facility " in Ukraine which a biological attack can be launched from. Ukraine that has had a civil/Russia war ongoing for eight years plus massive corruption plus loony tune militia . Complete and utter madness, where else do they have them?

Lithium: Afghanization is full of it, which Russia and China will be hoping to strike deals on,

Lithium - Afghanization is full of it and Russia and China will be hoping to strike deals

The Ukraine government/MPs seem generally young (30s/40s)? No 'elder statesmen' noted to date. Or is that because they're more likely to be the ones who can speak English and being used to get the message across internationally?

It occurs to me that some of the families of prominent Russians may be based here for their protection should the senior guy fall out with Putin. Wasn't there any issue with Alexandra Tolstoy when she was in that TV documentary that charted her relationship with Russian oligarch Sergei Pugachev (now an enemy of the Russian State)? I am sure there were some scenes when she was worried that they were being watched by sinister forces (the Russians!), stationed outside their London home?

@MagicFox - I think that's what lots of people are worrying about - which is understandable given the threats that have been made recently, but this was started a number of years ago, well before those threats were made.

I'm sure it could double as that kind of functionality, but it sounds more like it was intended to be a kind of HQ where they process intelligence from European espionage activities. This might be located underground for security reasons - no signal, can't listen, can't view from above, can't monitor activity etc. Most sites used for handling high level intelligence and security information will have these kinds of spaces - maybe not underground, but no windows, thick walls, signal blocking capabilities etc.

Obviously it's concerning in itself that they're evidently running those kinds of operations from Ireland, but it's not necessarily an indication of nuclear intent in itself.

Total blip at the end of that post. No idea what happened. Must be my bot malfunctioning

Thanks @toastfiend

@endlesscraziness

People seem to forget that a chemical weapon was used on British soil and sod all was done about it. I can't see a Novichok attack in Ukraine being the trigger for NATO involvement

Not exactly - they used an agent (no doubt developed as part of a CW research programme) as an individual assassination method.

When you're talking about a chemical weapon (mass destruction) it's a totally different thing.

@DuncinToffee

2.5 million: that’s equivalent to well over 1 in 20 of Ukraine's population.

And is about the same as the number of displaced people following the wars in the former Yugoslavia.

But in a much shorter time

Isn't Dublin a tech hub?

@Hillsmakeyoustrong

Can I just ask, at risk of sounding naive (which I am on warfare) would NATO actually intervene if say Poland was being invaded and Putin made the same threats? They are a NATO country, so technically we would, but I do wonder whether we would in the face of nuclear threat?

NATO would have to - it would be a clear Article 5 issue )an attack on one is an attack on all). Or it's the end of NATO as we know it. And heaven help the Baltic states

I can't believe the US thought it was a good idea to have a "biological research facility " in Ukraine which a biological attack can be launched from. Ukraine that has had a civil/Russia war ongoing for eight years plus massive corruption plus loony tune militia . Complete and utter madness, where else do they have them?

“Biological research facility”,

Well if it actually exists, does what exactly? Research on AIDS, research on strep. throat?

@notimagain

I can't believe the US thought it was a good idea to have a "biological research facility " in Ukraine which a biological attack can be launched from. Ukraine that has had a civil/Russia war ongoing for eight years plus massive corruption plus loony tune militia . Complete and utter madness, where else do they have them?

“Biological research facility”,

Well if it actually exists, does what exactly? Research on AIDS, research on strep. throat?

It does exist as stated by Victoria Nuland and she said they were concerned that Russian troops would gain control of it. The US says "The Biological Threat Reduction Program’s priorities in Ukraine are to consolidate and secure pathogens and toxins of security concern and to continue to ensure Ukraine can detect and report outbreaks caused by dangerous pathogens before they pose security or stability threats."