Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 10

[cakeorwine]

That filled up quick

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4497950-Ukraine-invasion-discussion-thread-part-9

I agree @baroqueandblue

I was shouting at the TV a lot today at Johnson, Patel, Truss et al for repeating the the self serving and self congratulatory tropes that the "UK is leading the world in its response to the Ukrainian crisis"

They. Can. Fuck. Right. Off.

(Sorry - shouting again )

DovesofPeace.. I've been hunted down in the most awful way over years, hopefy those days are over now, who knows. I haven't changed my name, I don't do it, I stand by my posts and I refuse to be cowed.

Oh, and I will criticise this government as much as I want, if I feel they fall short in their responses to this atrocity. I'm furious about their refugee responses. Or lack of them. And Patel's lies today

@prettybird, never apologise for shouting at them - on TV, or anywhere else. That's what your voice is for! 😉

Is that coalition poster thing actually for real?
With that and the 6 point plan thing, I'm wondering if this is a legacy of Covid? Do all political announcements and ideas now have to conveyed to the public in a format suitable for a zoom meeting PowerPoint slide?

I agree in credit where credit is due. The UK armed forces and the relevant ministers have been fantastic. I sincerely hope that our training of soldiers and early arms delivery have helped Ukrainian soldiers in standing up to Putin.

Many posters also agree that Johnson (and the rest of NATO) are absolutely right to refuse to send soldiers or pilots.

However, today’s major news (and what I’ve found people talking about irl) is the refugee crisis and how our approach is so out of step (and inhumane). So for that, the government are rightly getting flak. It really isn’t the fault of posters here that Truss, Patel and No10 have been saying conflicting things and generally displaying their ineptitude.

I don't change my name as I'm happy to stand by any and all of my posts in real life

Anyone who know me would recognise me

Btw has anyone else watched Servant of the People yet?

And James Cleverly this morning. He was all over Shy and BBC and he was dreadful in his procrastination about 50 visas

Hostile environment at work. Albanian migrants versus Ukranian refugees, if only they could afford a golden visa and donate wallpaper.

Part of understanding the crisis in Ukraine, for me, absolutely includes our government’s response to it. Finding out about Patel’s misinformation and lies about a Calais visa processing facility prompting posters to write to their MPs is encouraging me to do likewise. Having this wider perspective in one thread is vital. Thanks to all the posters keeping us informed.

Just watched the first episode. Hard slog for the first 15 mins or so, then it starts to get going. You need some concerntration with the subtitles. But its brilliant. That man was never going to do anything other than what he has....

What channel redtoothbrush?

@LittleRedYoshi

The Russian army is apparently 900,000 strong - any theories as to why Putin has "only" sent 150,000 into this conflict? It's unnerving me a bit (i.e. does he have something else planned).

As pp's have already said they have other territories and borders to "protect" other than Ukraine.

You also need to remember that not everyone in the army is a solider you can deploy. An army requires a huge amount of logistical support so there are a not insignificant number of members of the armed forces that will never operate on the front lines.

There's also the issue of training. In the U.K. we differentiate between trained and untrained service personnel (researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7930/CBP-7930.pdf).

In short, numbers aren't everything. It's about having the forces with the right training, right equipment, in the right place and the logistical support to enable them to perform.

This is where Russia appears to be failing and ironically adding more soldiers (especially poorly trained ones) only exacerbates the problem in that you heighten the logistical effort required (more trucks, more food, more fuel, more complex comms etc).

If you have a lot of soldiers trying to fight, then you don't have enough to do the occupying.

Especially when you have a hostile population and hostile Western democracies after you.

@RedToothBrush

300! Wow. The Irish have welcomed 600 so far. Israel 3000. And we are proudly saying 300 as if its a good thing?

The city of Berlin has housed 5700 Ukrainian refugees in public accommodation as of yesterday. That's not counting those staying with friends or family.

Дорогой длинною

I hope they come again for the Ukrainians.

@FacebookPhotos

wouldn't it mean the price of their exports decreases for us, the buyers? Although they could just inflate the prices.

I suspect they’ll do the latter.

Energy trade is always priced in dollars, so the rouble rate is neither here nor there for the buyers.

I've never been impressed by Priti Patel, Liz Truss seemed hopeful before I looked closely at her record and actions, Ben Wallace seemed lacklustre, but seems to be doing a good job.

However, whatever we think of the UK ministers, we are where we are and right now different countries are responding in different ways. The refugee crisis is one of the big issues to be faced, but more importantly an invasion needs to be blunted.

The 2022 invasion started on 24th February. Before that Germany, for instance, was being obstructive and France had Macron talking away. I wonder if, when we look back on things, the hours and hours Macron has spent talking with Putin will be seen as a useful distraction. UK, Poland, Estonia etc. were giving material help.'

8th Feb article: 'the British are unstoppable...' with their help.

www.chathamhouse.org/2022/02/ukraine-response-reveals-europes-security-changing

17th Feb article: UK - Poland - Ukraine Security Pact.

www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2022/02/17/ukraine-uk-poland-announce-security-pact-amid-heightened-tensions/

23rd Feb article: Britain sending more weapons to Ukraine.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-sending-more-weapons-to-ukraine/

Servant of people c4. Was on 10.30pm last night but ive watched on catch up tonight

The thing that caught my eye today, among the images of destroyed Russian vehicles was this from Bloomberg:

The odds of Russia making its foreign debt payments are diminishing as bond prices fall, recession in the nation looms and various payment restrictions pile up after the invasion of Ukraine, according to Morgan Stanley & Co.

“We see a default as the most likely scenario,” Simon Waever, the firm’s global head of emerging-market sovereign credit strategy, wrote in a Monday note. “In case of default, it is unlikely to be like a normal one, with Venezuela instead perhaps the most relevant comparison.”

news.bloomberglaw.com/bankruptcy-law/morgan-stanley-sees-russia-set-for-venezuela-style-debt-default

It was nice watching Servant of the People.

As the situation gets ever worse the programme reminds you how normal this society normally is.

It seems to me though that the Military are quietly getting on with the job that they are paid to do, and doing it to the best of their ability - not running around shouting about being World Beating blah, blah blah.

The Russian people are being so brave standing up to putin

[quote DovesofPeace]@Ijsbear

I've been here about ten years and I frequently name change, because we are an anonymous forum.

That's kind of the point.

There are also some heavily invested posters with absolutely nothing better to do than hunt down posters in a sort of mob rule When someone says something they don't like.

But I'm absolutely sure, no one on this thread has demeaned themselves to wasting their time searching for me, merely because I put a plea out... not to turn this into a political thread.
As has been mentioned many times earlier on.[/quote]
So you just happened to name change before coming on here and telling us all to stop being mean to the Tories? Okay.

People really need to stop telling us to not be political. It's like the wartime version of Be Kind.

Surely it's not hard to understand the difference between genuine grounded criticism and tribal labour supporters who would find issues with anything that a Tory government does and why it turns threads in on themselves and they become an echo chamber?

This thread has definitely taken a Westministenders' turn which is disappointing. Several posters are suddenly popping up from over there with the Tory stick. All the other info that I was finding informative is getting lost. Probably going to give this thread a swerve now.