Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 10

996 replies

cakeorwine · 07/03/2022 19:53

That filled up quick

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4497950-Ukraine-invasion-discussion-thread-part-9

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Booklover3 · 08/03/2022 23:48

I did wonder about that myself @carrottopper

I’m sad to see the US nixing the planes from Poland idea

Freedombpass · 08/03/2022 23:48

He can't just unilaterally launch nukes.

carrottopper · 08/03/2022 23:48

@Freedombpass why not?

Freedombpass · 08/03/2022 23:52

Because others have to agree to it. There isn't just a button he presses that launches them.

RedToothBrush · 08/03/2022 23:55

@carrottopper

The news seems to suggest Russia are losing equipment and men fast. If all trade and businesses withdraw, and we cut him off, won't he feel like he has nothing to lose and start the nuclear war?
If he's still president and still has power in Russia he still has something to lose.

You have to do more than that to get to the 'nothing to lose scenario'.

BreadInCaptivity · 08/03/2022 23:58

[quote carrottopper]@Freedombpass why not? [/quote]

Couple of reasons:

  • Is not a simple as Putin alone having hands on a big red button. We don't know what's going on within the Russian govt, but I think it's fair to say that mutually assured destruction over Ukraine is not the endgame of everyone in the chain of nuclear detonation protocol.
  • Putin's a survivor. A winner. An egotist. Going out with a bang isn't his MO. Sure he'll razor his enemies to the ground but himself? What's a legacy when there's no-one to celebrate it?

I'm not saying he won't use nuclear weapons. But I think launching ICBM's is highly unlikely. Rather a small local nuke or fake nuclear plant disaster is more likely - and I think even that is pretty improbable.

I think it's far more likely he'd resort to localise chemical weapons.

Obviously that's bloody awful - but personally I'm not fretting that the end is nigh....

BreadInCaptivity · 09/03/2022 00:00

Sorry for all the typos. Not great at typing on my phone at the best of times and I'm tired!

Purplecatlover · 09/03/2022 00:02

@ljsbear it’s Ukraine I believe not “the Ukraine”

Feelingthepinch22 · 09/03/2022 00:04

Have Poland a plab b option with the planes or is that the end of it?

Booklover3 · 09/03/2022 00:13

My thinking now that Poland have said their proposal is why can’t someone with lots of money now buy their planes and just give them to Ukraine? Obviously on the sly. Does it have to be a country?

BreadInCaptivity · 09/03/2022 00:23

@Booklover3

My thinking now that Poland have said their proposal is why can’t someone with lots of money now buy their planes and just give them to Ukraine? Obviously on the sly. Does it have to be a country?

My guess is that it's been decided that "a technicality" won't cut it given the Russians know these are NATO (polish) planes.

Maybe there's been an intelligence update?

Or frankly some behind the scenes talk?

Or even that the risk/reward isn't worth it given the Ukrainians are holding their own in the air right now or that they aren't/can't and the additional planes won't make any tangible difference?

Ultimately it seems it's been decided it's not advisable right now - but things can change quickly...

toastfiend · 09/03/2022 01:33

I do slightly wonder if this is a bit of propaganda from the NATO side - smaller, less threatening NATO member offers significant, more provocative military aid to Ukraine if US backs them. US, who Putin is continuously expressing have supposedly been aggressive towards Russia, immediately throw their hands up and say "whoa, whoa, whoa, seems a bit escalatory, everyone calm down, probably shouldn't do that" and make a big show of how NATO aren't looking for a fight/to be involved militarily. I know he'll continue with it, but it does make it quite hard for Putin to keep up the narrative that Russia is under threat from NATO if they're demonstrably distancing themselves from the proposed actions of some member states to avoid being seen as overly aggressive.

I don't know, it's just my late night musings and I expect there's a million reasons why that wouldn't be the case, but it just seems odd that there have been rumblings of this for a week now and all of a sudden the US are acting like it's a surprise.

Ponchek · 09/03/2022 02:54

[quote Purplecatlover]@ljsbear it’s Ukraine I believe not “the Ukraine”[/quote]
I was taught 'the Ukraine' as well. What is that?! 🤦‍♀️

Why does everything have to be so public? Why can't whatever entities give stuff to (the .....) Ukraine to help but just not publicise it?

Febrier · 09/03/2022 02:54

I wonder how Putin sleeps at night. Is he medicated?

Crazy how one man has so much power.

Sunnierdays · 09/03/2022 06:05

@carrottopper yes this has been my concern too !! It’s a pity that some agreement can’t be drawn up to end all this . The damage Putin has now done to it’s self will take years and years to recover from !!
I just can’t believe this has happened in 2022!! The world pulled together with covid and now this !! All those billionaire Russians living their best life and Russia booming as and economy now all destroyed!! Unfortunately it will be the average Russian person who will be affected the most Sad

Sunnierdays · 09/03/2022 06:07

*damage Putin done to Russia !!

Flapjacker48 · 09/03/2022 06:14

Remember there will be much more private chat between USA and Russian than you would think. An additional hotline to the Russian equivalent of the department of defense has been activated again (last used during Russian operations in Syria) to help avoid "misunderstandings". Despite what some on MN seem to think, USA and Russian do not want a nuclear war!

BigHuff · 09/03/2022 06:21

@toastfiend

I do slightly wonder if this is a bit of propaganda from the NATO side - smaller, less threatening NATO member offers significant, more provocative military aid to Ukraine if US backs them. US, who Putin is continuously expressing have supposedly been aggressive towards Russia, immediately throw their hands up and say "whoa, whoa, whoa, seems a bit escalatory, everyone calm down, probably shouldn't do that" and make a big show of how NATO aren't looking for a fight/to be involved militarily. I know he'll continue with it, but it does make it quite hard for Putin to keep up the narrative that Russia is under threat from NATO if they're demonstrably distancing themselves from the proposed actions of some member states to avoid being seen as overly aggressive.

I don't know, it's just my late night musings and I expect there's a million reasons why that wouldn't be the case, but it just seems odd that there have been rumblings of this for a week now and all of a sudden the US are acting like it's a surprise.

Yeah, it's bizarre. It would not have been publicly announced without all the details being ironed out and agreed upon by all sides, so very strange that it's now being walked back. Unless the situation suddenly changed.
Candlecassie · 09/03/2022 06:42

Why has Poland offered their jets to the USA and not to Ukraine direct?

Also, and trying to word this correctly. Why are the UK so heavily involved. I mean Zelensky in parliament yesterday, why not Spain or Germany? Boris to Poland last week, why not the Prime Minister from France or somewhere else. Also, Putin has made direct comments about the UK recently. Rightly so, we should be helping and I don’t think we are doing enough to help refugees. I think my question is why are the UK involved so heavily politically?

OhRosalind · 09/03/2022 06:52

Zelensky spoke to the EU parliament (so Germany, Spain are covered by that) a week ago. Now the UK’s not part of the EU it obviously gets mentioned and dealt with separately while the EU get treated as a bloc.

EU politicians have been doing calls, visits etc and been singled out by Russia in specific comments as well, it’s just the British press tends to focus on the UK.

Roussette · 09/03/2022 06:58

I believe France and Germany are just as involved as us. I think he's addressed other parliaments also.

Flapjacker48 · 09/03/2022 07:02

@Candlecassie As they are concerned about Moscow's response.

jgw1 · 09/03/2022 07:03

@FacebookPhotos

What is the one thing in the world that would end the suffering of people in Ukraine?

A full withdrawal of Russian troops, who are allowed to return home without further casualties because Putin has agreed to pay reparations for to the physical damage to Ukraine.

Back in the real world, multiple news outlets (ITV and Washington Post at least) reporting that the Russian army are (yet again) preventing evacuation of civilians. Anyone surprised?!

If the civilians really wanted to escape from the neo-Nazis that have entrapped them in their homes and cities then they would have taken the kind offer to go to peace loving Russia. Since they didn't take that opportunity it is only reasonable to conclude that they are also neo-Nazis and so need to be got rid of.
MarshaBradyo · 09/03/2022 07:03

Plane update, US says plan untenable

www.reuters.com/world/us/us-surprised-polands-decision-give-it-fighter-jets-ukraine-2022-03-08/

Swipe left for the next trending thread