Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 10

[cakeorwine]

That filled up quick

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4497950-Ukraine-invasion-discussion-thread-part-9

@dreamingbohemian

DovesofPeace Welcome to MN

You are a new arrival to a thread series that's seen 9000 posts, if you find it boring then you are free to start another thread, Ukraine for Tories perhaps.

This!

@RedToothBrush

Kate McCann *@kateEmccann* Sounds like chaos at UK visa application centre in Rzeszow, Poland. Not enough staff, computer problems, refugees told a paper list queue would get priority over online bookings - 150 on paper list then told online bookings prioritised instead. People being turned away...

Elderly people, children, desperate families with nowhere else to go and no accurate info. It is cold, there are not enough chairs, no food and those waiting in person hoping to get through are not allowed to leave or they lose their place in a queue which may not be honoured..

More on this on Sky News later today.

twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1501175179329916930?s=21 We’re outside the UK visa application centre in Rzezsow, Poland. It’s -3 degrees. People have been waiting in this queue for 3 hours. There are children here. An 84 year old woman. And plenty of room inside, but they won’t open the door.

I do honestly find it astonishing that he manages to get any viewpoint out at all. Putin is more than ruthless enough to gag him.

If you kill you main opposition a new one will spring up pretty soon. Putin has the figurehead for his opposition safely locked up as a warning to the waverers and under sufficient control that he doesn't pose a significant threat.

Matthew Thompson @matthewuthompson
We’re outside the UK visa application centre in Rzezsow, Poland.

It’s -3 degrees. People have been waiting in this queue for 3 hours.

There are children here. An 84 year old woman.

And plenty of room inside, but they won’t open the door

People in the queue here all say the same thing. If they happened to live in France, or Germany, they wouldn’t need to be here at all. They could just take their relatives with them.

The U.K. has quite literally left them out in the cold.

@EsmaCannonball
So, on that basis, how do people feel about the World Cup in Qatar? Are current events not teaching us a big lesson on that one?

$$$

The current war is horrific on any number of fronts and of course an “illegal” war of aggression, a land grab, and so on.

But if it was beneficial to enough of the West’s strategic geopolitical and economic interests we would be more or less looking the other way.

It isn’t of course, and therefore the political establishment and media are free to condemn it in the strong terms it deserves.

Just wanted to say thank you for these threads. They're really balanced and calm.

I saw a couple of things this morning which I thought were maybe positive?

Apparently Russia has reached out to the US asking for better 'more peaceful' relations, I just thought that was much more positive/less threatening language from them than the last 10 days....

Also China has met with France and another country (sorry can't look back as it will throw me off MN) saying that the three countries need to work together to help broker peace. Great if China are going to get off the fence and help out a bit more ...

Anyway that's just my little 2p, keep up the good work!

FFS, what the heck us wrong with the UK Government and its refugee policy?

For all the flack the Swiss get for being on the more xenophobic end of the spectrum, it has stepped up regarding Ukrainian refugees: Visa (and passport) free entrance to Switzerland for Ukrainians; 90 days to register in Switzerland for aid, housing, schooling and health insurance; a simplified visa process after arrival in Switzerland granting a one year visa which can be extended as necessary; free public transport and the capacity to take in over 50'000 people (private and public housing) already set up.

Come on UK, even the Swiss are doing (much) better than you!

The Times @thetimes
Defence officials will be drafted in to help process visa applications for Ukrainian refugees trying to reach the UK

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/defence-officials-to-help-embattled-home-office-process-visas-of-ukrainian-refugees-6ghvn09nj?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1646741502-1

Interesting.

During the withdrawal of Afghanistan, the DoD was forced to stand in and help the Foreign Office because they were shambolic.

Now we have the DoD stepping in to help the Home Office.

(The DoD also helped the Department of Health during covid but I think thats somewhat more understandable and justifible)

There seems to be some real issues going on here, particularly in terms of management.

Ben Wallace had a massive falling out with Raab over Afghanistan and Raab eventually went for pretty much deliriction of duty. And Wallace had a melt down over Carrie and her Animals (again since proved to be justifible).

Its very concerning that our Home Office and Foreign Office are in such a state that they need bailing out like this.

I do wonder, with the pictures of the dire situation at Rzezsow are going to state really being uncomfortable.

Will someone be scapegoated for the mess???

The authorities in Calais are increasingly critical of the British response... they want an end to visas.. but if the British insist on visas, the French are willing to pay the return rail fare, to Paris, for Ukrainians to finalise their British bureaucratic visa paperwork.

twitter.com/haggis_uk/status/1501183587692986370?s=21

peridito yes, as you suggest, I simply meant that by signing the 1997 Founding Act, which expressly provides for NATO expansion, Russia had indicated its agreement to that happening, so can't now say it was tricked. Not that it had agreed legally and should now be held to that commitment.
The whole "we were duped" argument is a smokescreen for the naive. Russia wants to be a superpower again, as the USSR was 40 years ago. Dominating nearby countries is the only way they can do that given their poor economy. They want to turn Ukraine into another Belarus, whose brutal president has been in power for 26 years. It's obvious why they've insisted that Ukraine commit not to join the EU - they have everything to lose from Ukraine becoming a well governed, democratic European country.

@peridito -
I should have said Putin wants Russia to be a superpower again...

We're an embarrassment. I watched an interview with a British man in Rzezsow this morning on breakfast news. He has a ukrainian wife and children and MIL. He said it was an absolute shambles in the Visa processing centre. About 1,000 people there, firstly told to do one thing, then waiting hours and getting to the front of the queue and sent back to the end of the queue after being told to do something else. Same again next day.

Can we really not got our act together on this? Militarily we have done well, but what matterssignificantly is human life fleeing awful conditions and the optics are just appalling.
Are the Home Office and Patel just procrastinating in the hope other countries take these people in? Even though some are born here and just trying to bring their wives and children over.
It's bad. Really bad.

Tory MPs have been standing up in the commons today saying yesterdays fiasco with Patel saying that there was support in Calais when there wasn't would normally be a resignation issue.

Just to stress that a majority of Tory voters are in favour of letting in Ukrainian refugees.

If Tory MPs are standing up and making this criticism, this is absolutely not a party political issue. It also shows what earache bankbenchers are getting from their grassroots and constituents.

This isnt Tory bashing. This is bashing a government which isn't addressing a humanitarian crisis because they are incompetent.

This needs to be spoken about and acknowledged.

Next talks Thursday between foreign ministers - Ukraine and Russia

Can I ask a question that’s bugging me?

Why do people keep saying ww3 is inevitable because Russia will invade a Nato country in the near future? I don’t see how he’ll be able to as he’s being hit so hard financially that he won’t be able to pay the army or pay to maintain the equipment and artillery? So if he’s struggled with Ukraine how will he manage say Poland?

Sir Roger Gale has been speaking out in parliament.

and Tory MP Tracy Crouch warns there are no available appointments at the UK’s refugee application centre in Rzeszow, Poland until….."the end of next month"

Afp news agency @afp
#BREAKING London suspends nickel trade after record spike

#UPDATE The London Metal Exchange says it has suspended trade in nickel after the base metal rocketed to a record peak above $100,000 on Russian output concerns

Problem for electric cars...

"Wow!! Tory MP Tracy Crouch warns there are no available appointments at the UK’s refugee application centre in Rzeszow, Poland until….."the end of next month"

twitter.com/rob_merrick/status/1501187028016414722?s=21

I really hope that this isn't true.

Priti Patel better watch out...

Sorry x post with Duncin.

@Notonthestairs

"Wow!! Tory MP Tracy Crouch warns there are no available appointments at the UK’s refugee application centre in Rzeszow, Poland until….."the end of next month"

twitter.com/rob_merrick/status/1501187028016414722?s=21

I really hope that this isn't true.

The visa application cenre in Brussels is only open 3 days a week

twitter.com/parlyapp/status/1501189684638228481?s=21

@Leafblowing

Can I ask a question that’s bugging me?

Why do people keep saying ww3 is inevitable because Russia will invade a Nato country in the near future? I don’t see how he’ll be able to as he’s being hit so hard financially that he won’t be able to pay the army or pay to maintain the equipment and artillery? So if he’s struggled with Ukraine how will he manage say Poland?

The chances of Russia invading a NATO country now appear extremely small. To be fair, even before the invasion, a lot of people thought this -- despite all the doomsday scenarios and wargames of a Russian invasion of the Baltics, there was not much evidence that Putin wanted anything other than Ukraine and Belarus tightly integrated to Russia.

But now it's clear the Russian military has not improved as much as people thought, and it's being degraded even more every day. They don't seem to have any precision-guided munitions left, for example, which is pretty unthinkable if you want to attack NATO, and the sanctions are going to interfere with Russia's ability to rearm quickly.

@RedToothBrush

Priti Patel better watch out...

.@SirRogerGale says Home Secretary said yesterday that a visa centre had already been set up in Calais - that was untrue and under any normal administration that would be a resigning matter

@PARLYapp

@Notonthestairs

Sorry x post with Duncin.

Nothing new there

@Leafblowing

Can I ask a question that’s bugging me?

Why do people keep saying ww3 is inevitable because Russia will invade a Nato country in the near future? I don’t see how he’ll be able to as he’s being hit so hard financially that he won’t be able to pay the army or pay to maintain the equipment and artillery? So if he’s struggled with Ukraine how will he manage say Poland?

Economies can be rebuilt. Though it takes time. Germany managed to do it very well after WW2. Look at South Korea, Vietnam now.