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Ukraine War: *title amended by MNHQ* Putin POV

208 replies

Amrapaali · 07/03/2022 12:58

This is a thread for people interested in both sides of the conflict. I have to admit from the off I have no skin in the game. I am not Russian, Ukrainian nor am I ethnically any kind of European or Briton.

I am just a cosmopolitan professional currently living in Britain. This may obviously change as my job or family circumstances change and I move to some other country. I am setting this stage just to re-iterate that I have no innate loyalty to any one country or state involved in this crisis. Of course, it goes without saying I am more than upset at the loss of innocent life in this war.

But I have been very disturbed at the way the media and politicians here have been frothing at the mouth. Almost all of them shriek "Russian propaganda" at Putin while doing the same thing unironically here. The very casual references to liquidating Putin, canonising Ukrainian fighters, the almost gleeful reports of Molotov-cocktail making, the self-congratulatory sympathy tears on TV breakfast sofas... There have been no attempts at actually analysing the war or presenting facts impartially without the anti-Russia outrage.

Here are a couple of interesting articles that gives a glimpse of what might have led to this moment.

These arent Russian troll bots. One is by a well-respected journalist and the other is an academic and expert. In fact British security maintained a big dossier on one of them, John Pilger for more than 40 years because he dared to put forward Kremlin’s view as well.

consortiumnews.com/2022/02/28/the-consequences-of-humiliating-russia/

independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/john-pilger-war-in-europe-and-the-rise-of-raw-propaganda,16065#.YiYAR8MPouI.link

Please share any other material you may come across. I would like to know more about Russian AND Ukraine without the media dictating to me what I should think.

OP posts:
Furries · 08/03/2022 02:24

There needs to be a new category in competitions: Mental Gymnastics.

Because some people on this site are really bloody good at it. Performance is enhanced with a very large word-salad.

Ncwinc · 08/03/2022 03:20

Assange being mentioned on a thread about Russia and their interference in other countries and their use of disinformation Grin

He’s a repugnant little man who shouldn’t be in prison.

DownNative · 08/03/2022 04:59

Amrapaali said:

Just wondering were you all aware of a scenario like this brewing in Russia/Ukraine. Before Dec 2021 that is...?

Yes, considering Putin's Russia invaded Georgia in 2008, Ukraine's Crimea in 2014, blew up an ammunitions storage in Czechia killing two, attempted to murder a Russian in Salisbury, UK killing a British national AND made it clear in 2021 he'll do something about Ukraine.

It wasn't a surprise to those who've been watching Putin.

DovesofPeace · 08/03/2022 07:06

We've all allowed Putin to run rampant, I wonder how history will judge us.
We gave him legitimacy, courted him ( us and USA) let him cross red line's etc.

Op Putin is a dictator, he doesn't speak for Russia and it's impossible to gage the population true feelings when they are not free to express them.

The chief in charge of telegram, a sort of what's app in Russia was sacked because he didn't want to hand over details of Pro Ukraine user's.

They are monitored and controlled to an extreme degree.

Ie can you make sure you're clear on " Putin's" view not Russia's.

DovesofPeace · 08/03/2022 07:10

In fact I think the thread title should be changed to reflect this.

I last read 1,400 brave Russian's have been imprisoned for protesting against this war. I saw a woman with a baby in a sling surrounded by police armed in combat gear as she was dragged off.
I've seen elderly ladies dragged off and even children packed into a transit Van with placards.

Putin's view; not Russia's.

Bideshi · 08/03/2022 10:20

@DovesofPeace

In fact I think the thread title should be changed to reflect this.

I last read 1,400 brave Russian's have been imprisoned for protesting against this war. I saw a woman with a baby in a sling surrounded by police armed in combat gear as she was dragged off.
I've seen elderly ladies dragged off and even children packed into a transit Van with placards.

Putin's view; not Russia's.

This is true and their bravery is incredible. But nevertheless the vast majority of Russians will believe what state tv and broadcasting media will tell them. And, as I said in another post, the most effective propaganda will have a tiny seed of truth in it and it behoves us at least to be aware of it. For instance, Putin is feeding them the notion that the entirety of Europe and America is Russophobe. That's a pretty fertile ground for whipping up support, m and difficult to deny as fake news. The Russians I knew, all highly educated, many academics, were jubilant when Trump was elected because they were told he was Russophile and would be a friend to Russia. These were people who travelled abroad regularly and had an otherwise sophisticated view of the world - should have know better but didn't. As Steve Rosenberg said, Russians have become adept at believing two polemically opposed things simultaneously.

No-one on this thread is pro-Putin or anywhere near it. But one day I fervently hope this will be over. And then Ukraine has to rebuild and the rest of the world has to find a way to live with Russia. That might involve accommodating situations that we may find difficult to swallow but it's ever been thus. My even more fervent hope is that Putin will be consigned to history.
I know it's tempting to put Ukraine on a pedestal. They are suffering so stalwartly, being utterly heroic and saying all the right things. Their cause is just and they are the brave victims of a paranoid monster at the head of a rogue empire. But just because they're on the right side of history it doesn't mean they are saints, or that they haven't made mistakes in the past. Wars start in the Balkans. Both world wars did. It's like a fault line that crosses Europe. The more we are aware of this the safer we shall be.

HopeMumsnet · 08/03/2022 11:02

Hi there,
Just to say that we have amended the title to describe the viewpoint more precisely.

NotTerfNorCis · 08/03/2022 11:13

Good for you, HopeMumsnet.

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