Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 9

[cakeorwine]

Because MN only allows 1000 posts and this is fast moving

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4496974-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-8

BBC world news has been taken off the air in Russia.

Hills - I think that really most people don’t know what they are talking about, just repeating whatever sound bites they most frequently happen to hear. Not sure what having 5 yo twins has to do with it?

Biased reporting and blatant propaganda are by no means one-sided.

This is one of the reasons I like this thread. Posters are constantly reminding each other to check sources and verification, and identifying where output from the Ukrainian government is propaganda too.

Thanks for continuing these threads.

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Channel 4 is screening Zelinskyy's TV show Servant Of The People.

Starts tonight at 1030 pm.

@FacebookPhotos

Biased reporting and blatant propaganda are by no means one-sided.

This is one of the reasons I like this thread. Posters are constantly reminding each other to check sources and verification, and identifying where output from the Ukrainian government is propaganda too.

And another issue is, national security, is also a main factor in different perspectives on operational matters, vs public's knowledge of them

@Alcemeg

I'm a pacifist and my heart goes out to Ukraine, but my husband is Russian and although he would never in a million years have supported this conflict, it is interesting to see what gets into the Western press and what doesn't. Biased reporting and blatant propaganda are by no means one-sided.

The fact remains, Putin has invaded a sovereign state

It doesn’t matter what does and doesnt get into the Western Press ( which is far more thruthful than the Russian Press)

It seems that closing the skies isn't really in anyone's interest (unless that is being said to appease us and our conscience) but if it would help Ukraine and therefore defeat Putin, I have to say I'd understand the decision. I say that as a mother of 5 year old twins.

Most of the shelling is artillery fire. A no fly zone won't help with that.

I have to wonder whether Johnson is annoyed that it's Macron making calls to Putin and not him because it doesn't play well for his Churchill image, or is he secretly quite pleased that he doesn't have to bother?

Is this tweet true?

twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1500474036874326020?s=21

@Papyrus

This is the third or fourth phone call Macron has had with Putin since Russia invaded. I feel quite sorry for him, do you think all the NATO leaders drew lots and Macron had the short straw? 😂

I think Macron and Putin are quite close. So close in fact I've heard they share clothes.

I'd say secretly pleased he doesn't have to bother Peregrina as I suspect laziness is a core character trait.

Pmk

Johnson is probably relieved.

I wonder if the Russian Orthodox Patriarchate could get through to Putin?

I believe they leant on him over some very controversial property deals with settlers in East Jerusalem. He may have sided with the wrong decision (interestingly), but he did listen.

(Also interestingly, Roman Ambramovich has put a lot of money into settler developments in and around Jerusalem that are deemed illegal by the UN.)

@BoreOfWhabylon

Thanks for continuing these threads.

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Channel 4 is screening Zelinskyy's TV show Servant Of The People.

Starts tonight at 1030 pm.

I'll be watching. Thanks for the heads-up.

If Johnson was in the lead with the phone calls he'd probably bugger it up, hugely insult Putin and then we'd all go up in a puff of smoke.

Is anyone of the opinion that this could all be ended in the next few weeks through sanctions and negotiations, or is that completely out of the question now? Has it gone way past that point?

[quote AgnesWestern]Is this tweet true?

twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1500474036874326020?s=21[/quote]
Putin told to Macron that he is ready to meet in the IAEA-Russia-Ukraine format, via videoconference or in a third country, according to the #Kremlin

Let's wait to see if confirmed elsewhere.

@Sittinginthesand I agree. But that is how public opinion is formed and I was answering as to why so many are asking for the skies to be closed. As to you question, I find it a moral dilemma not wanting to expose your own children's lives at the expense of other childrens.

[quote AgnesWestern]Is this tweet true?

twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1500474036874326020?s=21[/quote]
Possibly sort of true. The IAEA International Atomic Energy Agency are quite keen on keeping Chernobyl stable. There are four other reactor sites also. There were some mutterings the other day about developing a protocol for keep nuclear power plants safe during war.

.

Other source twitter.com/euobs/status/1500486370271367170 a few days old but it is a work in progress.

Boris would probably be less than happy if Scotland had allied with Russia and brought Russian military influence to our doorstep. Also that we too aren't hesitant to invade countries we perceive as a military threat

Nothing wrong with this statement.

Alex Salmond did cosy up to Putin - it's certainly true that rUK would not be happy if an independent Scotland cosied up to Russia (or China).

Back in the day England didn't want Scotland or Ireland to be bases for invasion especially Catholic Ireland being a springboard for invasion by Catholic countries in Europe (and Scotland was always matey with France).

But the difference here is that there is zero risk of the US invading Russia from Ukraine (or Belarus, or Estonia - or indeed Alaska!). It's nothing to do with that and everything to do with Putin feeling personally bitter about the break-up of the Soviet Union.

One thing I’ve thought concerning media in the different countries: they’ve banned western sources. I don’t think we’ve banned any foreign sources, or tried to ban parts of the legitimate internet.

@dogfishman - I'm no expert ,happy to agree I'm not totally correct .It's a complicated picture which one can view through different lenses .I don't think it's a simple case of Nato hasn't broken any promises ,I think they've justified their expansion .But they have expanded .

NATO said they would not placing nuclear weapons and that is no doubt true but In 2016, we deployed four multinational battlegroups ─ or "enhanced forward presence" ─ to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland. In 2017, the battlegroups became fully operational. More than 4,500 troops from Europe and North America work closely together with home defence forces and that the
total force levels across the Alliance have substantially reduced since the end of the Cold War .
With new technology ,drones ,information gathering I wonder what total force level actually means .
www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_111767.htm

Nato says that the forces are forces are rotational, defensive and well below any reasonable definition of "substantial combat forces."

Several years after German reunification, in 1997, NATO said that in the “current and foreseeable security environment” there would be no permanent stationing of substantial combat forces on the territory of new NATO members. Up until the Russian military occupation of Crimea in March, there was virtually no stationing of any NATO combat forces on the territory of new members. Since March, NATO has increased the presence of its military forces in the Baltic region and Central Europe

www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

Do you have a link to Russia's agreement that you mentioned ?

Checking in. Saw an Uzbek friend today, who reminded me that huge numbers of Uzbeks and Tajiks work as gastarbeiters in Russia - more than a quarter (!) of Tajikistan's GDP comes from Western Union and similar remittances into the country from Tajiks working in Russia (sometimes illegally). And with the rouble in freefall many are now heading home. Interesting to see what this will do to the Russian labour market - typically these workers will be taking roles on building sites etc. Unskilled labourers.

RT has been banned in the UK and EU.