Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 9

999 replies

cakeorwine · 06/03/2022 10:45

Because MN only allows 1000 posts and this is fast moving

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4496974-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-8

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
notimagain · 06/03/2022 15:17

There were some mutterings the other day about developing a protocol for keep nuclear power plants safe during war.

There are already a few protocols, e.g.

ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docindex/v2_rul_rule42

It’s enforcing the protocols in the middle of a war that’s the big problem.

ClaudineClare · 06/03/2022 15:18

@ClaudineClare

RT has been banned in the UK and EU.
That was in reply to ParsleySageRosemary. This threads moves so fast!
DuncinToffee · 06/03/2022 15:19

@ParsleySageRosemary

One thing I’ve thought concerning media in the different countries: they’ve banned western sources. I don’t think we’ve banned any foreign sources, or tried to ban parts of the legitimate internet.
RT (Russia Today) and Sputnik have been sanctioned by EU and UK
ChimChimeny · 06/03/2022 15:29

[quote DuncinToffee]FFS , Reports of aid for Ukraine being blocked by UK customs.

Vans are now being turned away at dover docks carrying aid for minimal value on commercial invoices - by the BRITS - not the french . They are enforcing the law 101% on humanitarian aid . Miffed and dumbfounded is an understatement
twitter.com/vanmaneuro/status/1500459470702485512?s=21[/quote]
I imagine that there are a lot of random people who have no clue about logistics/customs etc filling vans with stuff and trying to drive to Poland which clearly isn't working for whatever reason.

DuncinToffee · 06/03/2022 15:35

I imagine that there are a lot of random people who have no clue about logistics/customs etc filling vans with stuff and trying to drive to Poland which clearly isn't working for whatever reason

Brexit red tape

Chase22 · 06/03/2022 15:38

Following

jm901928 · 06/03/2022 15:39

I don't think it's a simple case of Nato hasn't broken any promises ,I think they've justified their expansion .But they have expanded

That’s clearly the case, but as far as I can see (I’m know very little about the situation admittedly) there’s a rather big logical fallacy in the idea that this is Putin’s motivation.

By attempting to occupy Ukraine, he’s going from a situation where Russia shares a border with no nato countries, to be being right next door to 4 nato countries.

They will have to have hundreds of thousands of troops in Ukraine permanently to even attempt to hold it, and that effectively puts Russia right on natos doorstep.

I find that fact very hard to square with the idea that Putin is acting because of nato.

Although, I know very little about this kind of thing so do excuse me if I’m talking bollocks…

Maze76 · 06/03/2022 15:41

@HeadPain

www.independent.co.uk/news/ukraine-germany-russia-poland-kharkiv-b2028392.html

"Horrific deja vu in Ukraine for those who fled other wars

The endless stream of people walking in line, heading to the border to escape Russia's war on Ukraine, has marked a jarring déjà vu for some in the exodus

When Russia launched its war on Ukraine, a Syrian student in the city of Kharkiv joined the exodus of people fleeing the onslaught. It was the third time that 24-year-old Orwa Staif, who grew up in the suburbs of Damascus, was being displaced by war and crises.

For Staif, it was a jarring déjà vu: columns of people, many on foot, carrying what few belongings they could, desperate to escape bombs and missiles. He had seen it all before, in his native Syria.

“The same sounds of bombs that I heard in 2013, I heard now in Kharkiv. I told my friends ‘I can’t believe I’m reliving the same experience'," Staif told The Associated Press in Germany, where he has since reunited with his family.

According to the United Nations, more than 1 million people have fled Ukraine following Russia’s invasion, the swiftest refugee exodus this century. They fled to neighboring countries, with Poland taking in the highest number.

In 2013, rebels fighting to topple Syrian autocrat Bashar Assad were in Staif's hometown of Douma, at the doorstep of the capital, Damascus. Airstrikes, shelling and street fighting were common.

His father defected from the army and the family was forced to leave Syria. Like so many other families, they scattered — some went to the United Arab Emirates, some to Germany. Staif went to neighboring Lebanon, where he graduated from high school.

In 2019, the situation in Lebanon deteriorated dramatically, with the economy crashing and people taking to the streets in mass protests. Poverty and inflation soared in an unprecedented economic collapse.

Staif's father advised him to go study in Ukraine, where getting a visa — at least in theory — was easier than in other places. Staif succeeded and moved to Ukraine the following year, in February 2020.

When Russia invaded last week, pummeling Ukrainian cities with airstrikes and shelling — including Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second-largest city — many piled into trains and cars to the city of Lviv in western Ukraine, before heading to the Polish border. Staif managed to get on a train for a 16-hour journey to Lviv, and from there continued on foot toward Poland.

Over the weekend, the line of traffic stretched for 30 kilometers (19 miles), backed up with cars and people. The unlucky ones without transportation had to make the trip on foot. Women, the elderly and children were among the masses — along with some foreigners, mostly students from other countries.

“This journey is so tough. I can say ten years of displacement. Whenever I get used to a place, I get new acquaintance with my friends and then I leave everything and go," Staif said.

"It’s so hard and so disappointing for me and I hate it... It’s the war wherever I am. Crises all over the world and those places that I’ve been.

A Yemeni student of mechanical engineering, a young woman evacuated from Kabul when the Taliban seized Afghanistan and others share much of Staif's story.

Mohammad Shamiri, 23, from Yemen's capital of Sanaa, arrived in Ukraine four years ago to study mechanical engineering at the Kharkiv National Automobile and Highway University.

“I never imagined this could happen here," in Europe, Shamiri said.

While escaping Ukraine, the sound of war and bombing was much more intense, he added. In Yemen, where a Saudi-led coalition has been fighting since 2015 against Iran-backed Houthi rebels who overran Sanaa, the bombardment was more intermittent.

Shamiri said he walked for 20 hours with a friend, a fellow Yemeni, carrying bags in subfreezing cold. Temperatures dropped to 17 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 8 degrees Celsius). Like Staif, he described spending a night outside, in the open.
At the border, guards gave Ukrainians priority in leaving the country, pushing back and beating non-Ukrainians, he said. Shamiri was hit with a baton and saw people tasered, he said. When he tried to film this with his smart phone, a border guard grabbed the phone and made him delete all photos and videos.

After finally crossing over, he arrived at a hospital in Krakow, Poland, where he and his friend are now being treated.

For Masouma Tajik, a 23-year-old from Afghanistan, solidarity amongst neighboring states has been unique in this war. She had been in Ukraine for about six months since being evacuated from Kabul, escaping the Taliban, before she had to flee again.

After spending a night sleeping on the floor of a cold church in Lviv, she was connected to Polish volunteers via a WhatsApp solidarity group, and one crossed the border to pick her up and bring her over

“Many things happened that reminded me of Kabul. But the kindness that I was seeing on this journey was remarkable,” she said. “In Afghanistan, you saw neighboring countries like Iran, Uzbekistan and Pakistan close their borders to Afghans.”

Tajik said she had no trouble at the border, and despite having an expired 15-day visa, the guards gave her a warm smile and let her through.

“When I left Afghanistan and went to Ukraine, they welcomed me warmly and I felt the home that I had lost,” she said. “I hate war. I am tired of it. It has taken people from me who are dear to me. I cannot afford to lose more.”

Fellow Afghan refugee, Jawad Akmal, remembers speeding to the Kabul airport one night in August, escorted by Ukrainian Special Forces. He said his relief was enormous when he boarded the plane to Kyiv along with his family. His wife, he later found out, was pregnant with their sixth child.

They were waiting to be resettled in Canada, their final destination, but after six months living in a Kyiv hotel room, he found himself in the middle of another war, unable to find food for his children and afraid he would be arrested with expired documents before he could make the police understand he was a refugee.

It was easier in Afghanistan, he said.

“At least that was my country, a place where I could talk to people in my own language, to ask for help to find shelter for me and my family,” he said over the phone from Kyiv, just hours before they left for Poland, traveling for more than a day on a bus crowded with fleeing Ukrainians.

Staif recalled walking all evening and night from Lviv, reaching the Polish border before dawn. People slept in the street. They ran out of food and water. The images are forever in his mind, he said, “people, in the thousands, all headed to the border, Ukrainian women and children."

From Poland, Staif flew to Prague, the Czech Republic, where his family picked him up in a car and brought him to Nuremberg, Germany.

“I loved Ukraine, I loved the country. Everything was perfect for me until the Russians came,” Staif said. “For me, this isn’t a happy ending,” he added, even though he was grateful to be reunited with his family.

The software engineering student said he was supposed to finish his last year of studies in Ukraine. “Now I don’t know."

“I might have to start all over again,” he said.

Naddaff reported from Beirut. Associated Press writer Kathy Gannon in Islamabad contributed. "

Thank you for posting this- I believe it’s a real eye opener for some
Dodie66 · 06/03/2022 15:41

Putin seizing own officials money. Reported on sky news
Putin signs new law to seize his own officials' money
Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a law allowing funds to be seized from the bank accounts of officials if the sum of the deposits exceeded their declared incomes over three years and was shown to be illegal, state television said on Sunday.

BirdOnTheWire · 06/03/2022 15:48

@Gingerwarthog

BBC world news has been taken off the air in Russia.
I believe they are broadcasting on a short wave radio frequency.
Gingerwarthog · 06/03/2022 15:49

@BirdOnTheWire
Thanks for that. That's something.

TheABC · 06/03/2022 15:49

If (a big if) oil sanctions go ahead, I can see Russia being forced to the negotiation table sooner rather than later as a way to avoid complete economic obliteration.

We've not done it yet because it's going to hurt millions in Europe too. However, that would be the economic equivalent of a nuclear bomb.

TheSillyMastiff · 06/03/2022 15:50

Indeed, and everyone saying it's the British customs fault it isn't.

The French authorise onward travel of goods and let them board. Not the UK.

The French are wanting the correct paperwork, but the Netherlands have just said they have temporarily stopped customs paperwork for aid for Ukraine. So all you have to do now, is UK - Netherlands with your goods.

Ever wondered why the French never just let a load of refugees in Calais board a boat, be easier for them wouldn't it, but no the UK are in charge of onward travel in Calais to British soil and vice versa.

Tigersonvaseline · 06/03/2022 15:50

IM really enjoying the USA comment now on sky news .

Does anyone know how to Access American news normally?
It say's NBC?

BreadInCaptivity · 06/03/2022 15:54

@Tigersonvaseline

IM really enjoying the USA comment now on sky news .

Does anyone know how to Access American news normally?
It say's NBC?

Here's the NBC live feed.

IndigoC · 06/03/2022 15:55

I just watched a video on Twitter of a mother and two children killed trying to escape the Russian bombardment of Irpin. Their small dog was in a crate with them, I think it survived. I cried in the shower afterward. I properly understand the word heartsick for the first time, I think.

I wish I could unsee it but on the other hand it is important people see what Putin is doing.

Alcemeg · 06/03/2022 15:58

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus
As a pacifist, what would you wish the outcome of the present geopolitical strife to be?

Well, I can't pretend to have any special insights, not to grasp the intricacies of international relations. Of course my ideal outcome would be everyone smiling and shaking hands, but this is somewhat naive!

However, presenting Putin as a bigoted one-track moron is not going to help resolve anything.

All I can say is that it's been interesting to see some discrepancies in reporting (e.g. Snake Island) and trusting the Western press to be driven by democratic altruism, untainted by economics, might be unwise.

I have no answers! Obviously, the only real chance of obtaining unbiased information will be after my lifetime.

DGRossetti · 06/03/2022 16:01

.

DuncinToffee · 06/03/2022 16:04

However, presenting Putin as a bigoted one-track moron is not going to help resolve anything.

I am sure he loves his children

EezyOozy · 06/03/2022 16:04

.

Alcemeg · 06/03/2022 16:08

@DuncinToffee

However, presenting Putin as a bigoted one-track moron is not going to help resolve anything.

I am sure he loves his children

I just don't think that black-and-white thinking helps anyone, although it's an inevitable consequence of the polarisation that happens during war.

And that, my friends, is the absolute limit of anything I can possibly comment! I know nothing. I suspect some people, like Macron, knows a bit more than I do. Anything else is just speculation, which let's face it is a form of entertainment, which I find a bit distasteful to be honest.

Words · 06/03/2022 16:10

Place mat king

Gingerwarthog · 06/03/2022 16:11

Could I ask everyone on the thread (who agrees with this of course) that they consider writing to their MP to ask that they look at the arrangements for supporting Ukrainian refugees to get to the UK?
(Eg setting up a temporary consulate in Calais with a Home Office team).
It probably takes less time to write an email to your MP than to post a longish post here.

Tigersonvaseline · 06/03/2022 16:12

Bread, thank you.

Tigersonvaseline · 06/03/2022 16:14

Indigo the people in Russia need to see it