Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 9

[cakeorwine]

Because MN only allows 1000 posts and this is fast moving

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4496974-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-8

The Article 1 Protocol 1 ECHR right to property is not an absolute right and can be balanced against other rights, particularly those which are absolute.

Perhaps those Tories calling for the ECHR to be scrapped will have another think now. There was a reason for trying to co-operate with European neighbours.

The story Boris Johnson just wishes would go away - Russian agents enobled son against M16 advice and the close friendship of our PM after poisonings on British soil.

If you groom abusers then they abuse and I am sure Putin's calculation was the west was too venal, too corrupted and too worried to risk a spiralling economic crisis. He miscalculated. Badly.

How about emergency legislation that limits all Russian born transference of assets say over £100,000 until we can determine the source and intentions of that person's wealth. Parliament lies ready and they could progue Parliament (or attempted to when it suited them) Keir Starmer and the oppositions have offered to help and it's what that brave Ukrainian journalist flung in Johnson's face at that press conference.

Remind's me of Andrew's visits to Epstein after he was found guilty.

Thank god for the bravery of John Sweeney and Carole Cadwallr and our freedom of speech.

Part of me feels they hold the key to ending this conflict

Me too. But China, unless it is being threatened which it isn’t, will always put its economy as a priority and with the west effectively putting up a firewall between themselves and Russia, this may actually be beneficial to China- after all Russia will still need to export to someone. Just my hunch, I may well have got some of that wrong.

Absolutely awful that the only place these poor people can escape to is Russia

@AgnesWestern and anyone else struggling, this link might help you a bit: www.getselfhelp.co.uk/unhelpful.htm

Interesting article that backs up the general consensus that The Kremlin cannot win. The use of the term ‘indigestible’ works particularly well.
edition.cnn.com/2022/03/06/opinions/bergen-mike-repass-putin-invasion/index.html

One day, when the Russian people eventually hear the truth that their country has been plundered for decades, I really do believe a younger Russian generation will take their country into the EU. What a waste of talent so far. So many of those conscripts could have been educated to produce mobile phones, computer software and involved in medical research. Russia, like so many Eastern European countries, is filled with talented people. All so far untapped and now going to waste. There is such a big story here.

This made me smile.

twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/1500735087398240256?s=20&t=CScjbfh3vtNVfveC01L8sQ

@Justanotherlurker

I will add a contrian point to RTB post as why do need the posts the cause issue

The internet was largely herald as a proper voice to the people, government overreach onto the internet is a bad thing and a slippery slope, if people should think about breaking a law for sharing a video things then we are already getting into a sitation of massaged media that we are 'allowed' to consume.

People should be more concerned about restrictions of online comments/restrictions rather than someone breaking them, the internet was made for everyone to have a voice and some of those voices are not what some want to hear, but to try and stiffle or ask peop,e to self police is not why the internet was created or why the western media/people are getting information about this war.

If we was to apply it litterally we wouldn't be getting half the footage out of Ukraine that even the BBC has run headlines on, the internet should be free and anyone sying they shouldn't be uploading/rewteeting x or y is trying to control it.

By that logic you justify all kinds of dark web and murderously abusive uses of the internet. You can't have it both ways.

Hopefully no one will use that corridor! Since they didn’t keep to the agreement with the other corridors and shot at civilians I think it would be a silly thing to do!

Reference the Macron and corridors to Russia claim, as per Ducin’s comment upthread, from the French rolling news channel BFMTV.

www.bfmtv.com/international/europe/macron-n-a-ni-demande-ni-obtenu-des-couloirs-humanitaires-vers-la-russie-contrairement-a-ce-qu-affirme-moscou_AN-202203070152.html

“ "Le président de la République n'a pas ni demandé ni obtenu des couloirs vers la Russie après sa conversation avec Poutine", a réagi la présidence ce lundi matin auprès de BFMTV.

"Une manière pour Poutine de pousser son narratif"

"Le président de la République demande de manière insistante de laisser partir les populations civiles et de permettre l'acheminement de l'aide", a-t-on ajouté de même source. "C'est une manière encore pour Poutine de pousser son narratif et de dire que ce sont les Ukrainiens les agresseurs et eux qui offrent l'asile à tous"

We should be ashamed of our country! 50 visas issued so far! It is an embarrassment! We should be taking refugees in like other European countries. We may have left the EU but are still part of Europe. Shame on our government!

@Fiefofum thanks for the info!

The story Boris Johnson just wishes would go away - Russian agents enobled son against M16 advice and the close friendship of our PM after poisonings on British soil

Like the formally HRH Andrew, Johnson is oblivious to anything and anyone other than his own preferences and wishes as a good time Charlie. Is it too much to hope that like Andrew, he too will be finally undone by the company he chooses to keep?

@Birchtree1 incompetence or covert policy - take your pick you can have both.

The story Boris Johnson just wishes would go away - Russian agents enobled son against M16 advice and the close friendship of our PM after poisonings on British soil.

But his father's job isn't important as James Cleverly's dad was a chartered conveyer

@Birchtree1

We should be ashamed of our country! 50 visas issued so far! It is an embarrassment! We should be taking refugees in like other European countries. We may have left the EU but are still part of Europe. Shame on our government!

I’m not excusing the UK policy (if there is one) but I suspect one issue lurking under the surface and I’d put money on this having already been discussed at cabinet level, is the following:

The minute there’s a suggestion that there should be an expedited process for entry into the UK for those from Ukraine somebody will pop up with “but what about…….”

@DuncinToffee

The story Boris Johnson just wishes would go away - Russian agents enobled son against M16 advice and the close friendship of our PM after poisonings on British soil.

But his father's job isn't important as James Cleverly's dad was a chartered conveyer

Surveyor not conveyer

quote of the day from James Cleverly on whether it’s okay to have the son of a KGB agent in the Lords:

“my father was a former chartered surveyor but what your father did for work I'm not sure is totally relevant”

@Birchtree1

We should be ashamed of our country! 50 visas issued so far! It is an embarrassment! We should be taking refugees in like other European countries. We may have left the EU but are still part of Europe. Shame on our government!

Email has just gone to MP. James Cleverly has sent me over the edge.

I stressed that the excuses were appalling.

There are people with biometric passports who can prove their relationship to a family member who are stuck because we are insisting on visas first for 'security reasons'. I stress that many of these are actually women travelling with young children. The idea that I'm somehow supposed to believe a toddler with a valid biometric passport is a security risk isn't one I'm prepared to listen to on any level.

I don't understand why on earth the British government are so utterly inept they didn't see that there would be people turning up at Calais trying to get across. Anyone with half a braincell and thought to planning would have got a team there to deal with it. We are a 1st country with massive resources to get a team there. Yet we couldn't. And we expect refugees, some travelling with young children, to turn around and go to Paris (and stay where exactly whilst doing this?). Are they on glue?

The sponsorship scheme isn't even published yet either.

I'm utterly raging about it. Especially after the Afghanistan fiasco.

No excuses.

I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned this morning so far but, "temporary holding facilities" for Ukrainians that leave Ukraine via one of these "humanitarian corridors" into Bela or Russia, sound a lot like the makings of a concentration camp. They've been assured they will be provided with onward travel from these facilities, but I just know they will not.

I would not take one of those routes. My heart breaks for the people that are desperate enough to do so. Many Ukrainians have family over the boarder in Russia and may decide it's worth doing. But he can never release them into general society, because they know the truth about the war. 😢

Shame on our government!

To hear Jams Not So Cleverly wheeled out on all the news channels procrastinating was just shameful. Earlier on Sky there was a British born man with his Ukrainian born wife and 2 children interviewed and turned away at Calais. He had been in a hotel for 3 nights trying to get back to England.

And all Cleverly could talk about was how hard they were working... yeah right... that's why it's a 9 to 5 telephone number to ring, no out of hours, and only 50 have managed the barriers that seem to be put up to Ukrainians with family here.

@AgnesWestern yep I'm in the same boat of you. Have to go out to work but had a bit of a meltdown this morning.

Weirdly I took comfort that this thread hadn't filled up as quickly as the others had meaning less major developments had occurred. Small and petty I know but it helped!

@DuncinToffee

The story Boris Johnson just wishes would go away - Russian agents enobled son against M16 advice and the close friendship of our PM after poisonings on British soil.

But his father's job isn't important as James Cleverly's dad was a chartered conveyer

James Cleverly performance this morning, and his departure from reality, would be one that Putin himself would be proud of.

Dad's a KGB agent / chartered conveyer. Yeah I can totally see why M16 should treat the same.

I think M15 should be warning us all about MPs who have a problem with reality are prepared to go full on 1984 tbh.

I agree with being faster, particularly with the sponsorship programme. I’m sure there are many ready to help here too

www.bbc.com/news/technology-60608222

This is a really interesting article about how Ukraine is using technology and social media in the war. The methods are ingenious but for some reason the BBC considers the methods divisive 🧐🧐

The rouble against the $ has gone over a cliff.

twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1500734160264175619

and... the spirit of the Ukrainians, picture in the tweet of the road sign, from a verified Guardian reporter

twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/1500735087398240256?s=20&t=CScjbfh3vtNVfveC01L8sQ

Road sign in Odessa

Straight on: fuck off
Left: fuck off again
Right: fuck off to Russia

@DrBlackbird

The story Boris Johnson just wishes would go away - Russian agents enobled son against M16 advice and the close friendship of our PM after poisonings on British soil

Like the formally HRH Andrew, Johnson is oblivious to anything and anyone other than his own preferences and wishes as a good time Charlie. Is it too much to hope that like Andrew, he too will be finally undone by the company he chooses to keep?

I think so, it might not be immediate but I think it may happen one day. With Carrie being involved with the Conservatives Russian group, that sounds quite dodgy in hindsight.