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Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 9

999 replies

cakeorwine · 06/03/2022 10:45

Because MN only allows 1000 posts and this is fast moving

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4496974-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-8

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19
PestorPeston · 06/03/2022 21:43

Agree @EsmaCannonball

toastfiend · 06/03/2022 21:43

@EssexLioness

I switch from being quite calm (as much as possible with this awful situation) and having moments of complete terror. The nights are what get me the most: my anxiety takes over and I am scared of nuclear attack. I live in the blast radius of London/ fallout zone.

As PP mentioned, I do feel like Putin has singled us out in some of his comments about the U.K. Do we have any proof that he has been threatening and singling out other countries in this way too? Where are people getting their other information from please? I understand U.K. media would focus on news about us specifically but I am curious whether we truly are being singled out or this is media bias.

They singled out the US this week, too, after they expelled 12 Russian diplomats from the UN for alleged spying. Can't find many links but there was quite a lot of reporting about it a few days ago but it seems to have been buried.

www.google.com/amp/s/newsinfo.inquirer.net/1562076/russia-to-retaliate-for-us-expulsion-of-12-diplomats-at-u-n/amp

Her use of language is interesting. "Not necessarily symmetrical" in this again raises the nuclear spectre because it sounds like they're not intending on a proportionate response to the US' action. Her comments re the UK sanctions said they would respond /retaliate proportionately - a nuclear bomb isn't a proportionate response to the sanctions we've imposed on them - but then goes on to say they're in open conflict with us, so people start worrying again. Ultimately, it's psychological warfare, they've put nuclear action on the table and they know the effect this will be having so they just drip a bit of poison and a bit of a threat every so often to keep us under that mental strain. We all know they lie, they lied about invading Ukraine after all, but they seem to be choosing words very deliberately to stoke up as much public concern as possible without crossing the red line.

notimagain · 06/03/2022 21:45

@alltheapples

The videos are made by Ukrainian civilians. I doubt the Geneva Convention applies.
I suspect it does, Article 12 states the Detaining power is responsible for their treatment at all times ….

“Prisoners of war are in the hands of the enemy Power, but not of the individuals or military units who have captured them. Irrespective of the individual responsibilities that may exist, the Detaining Power is responsible for the treatment given them.”

PestorPeston · 06/03/2022 21:46

Maybe GDRP could apply to POW

Do you have the consent of the person in the video to share it?
Then don't

Tigersonvaseline · 06/03/2022 21:46

Doesn't Putin's daughter work in the EU? His illegitimate once?

MissConductUS · 06/03/2022 21:46

I couldn't find a second source for this, but it's consistent with other news.

Ukraine says its pilots are in Poland picking up donated MiG-29 fighter jets. Poland isn't commenting.

I can't tell whether Putin realises he's made a major fuck-up and feels his only option is to act as scary as possible, or whether he's priming the stage for some manufactured excuse to spread this to other countries. I fear the latter. I hope there are some sane higher-ups in Russia who just won't go along with him.

Well put, I've wondered the same thing. I think he's probably got an idea that it's not going well. If the latter, I don't know if he has the military resources to do more than deal with Ukraine at the moment, and time is not on his side due to the sanctions.

notimagain · 06/03/2022 21:47

If I could edit to add I would add I do however agree with the comment that these videos (so far) ate not something The Hague is going to worry about.

PestorPeston · 06/03/2022 21:50

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elephantmarchingin · 06/03/2022 21:53

@MissConductUS the link you posted mentions nothing about planes?

Catquestion · 06/03/2022 21:54

I took a screenshot of this from one of the earlier threads, which I found really useful - hopefully it helps someone else too.

I can’t remember who posted it and my screenshot cut off the user name, so apologies for not giving credit.

The posts on these threads are typically really balanced and informative. I’ve learnt a lot from them- there are clearly some very knowledgeable people on here and I like the way that unsubstantiated, sensationalist clickbait about escalation is called out as such.

I’m not able to contribute anything insightful about what’s going on, sorry, but I really value these threads

Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 9
TheSillyMastiff · 06/03/2022 21:55

"OVD says that in total 13,028 protestors have now been arrested in Russia since Moscow invaded Ukraine."

Source: BBC

I must say the courage of those protesting Russia right now is also astounding! And not to be forgotten. They really did understand the saying;

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

Justanotherlurker · 06/03/2022 21:56

Seeing the footage of civilians being targeted on the news it's clear no Russian soldier should be able to argue they didn't know what they were doing or they were just following orders.

You have to remember that rule 101 of being caught is to say those exact things, the Ukrainian will have it drilled into them the same (although it is slightly different with them being the defender), anyone further up the chain of command keeps this up for a few days and then spills their mission hoping that it has already been carried out etc, what you are seeing online is not just an indication of Russian military being illinformed etc (although wider footage shows it is falling apart with the recent footage of Russia shipping over non military vehicles to be used as logistics, chinese knock off tyres and even the Belerusian knock of tyres of the chinese version causing issues). It is a standard response.

Like it or not, this is a proxy war being fought with Ukraine as its locus. I can't tell whether Putin realises he's made a major fuck-up and feels his only option is to act as scary as possible, or whether he's priming the stage for some manufactured excuse to spread this to other countries. I fear the latter. I hope there are some sane higher-ups in Russia who just won't go along with him.

It is a new proxy war for sure, and it won't end at a Russian or Ukrainian victory, only this time the ones raising it do have nuclear weapons and its why it has spooked the EU into more military spending, putin has surrounded himself with yes men during the past couple of decades but this will turn into a cold war 2.0 not ww3.

EssexLioness · 06/03/2022 21:58

Thank you @toastfiend, that is interesting! I hate that this scares me so much as I know That is exactly what Putin wants. I also feel selfish to be scared when the Ukraines are the ones suffering.

Where is everyone looking for reliable balanced reports of all this? I am mostly relying on the BBC and don’t use Twitter but feel like I would like to see more of other countries viewpoints on this too.

hazandduck · 06/03/2022 22:00

@Catquestion

I took a screenshot of this from one of the earlier threads, which I found really useful - hopefully it helps someone else too.

I can’t remember who posted it and my screenshot cut off the user name, so apologies for not giving credit.

The posts on these threads are typically really balanced and informative. I’ve learnt a lot from them- there are clearly some very knowledgeable people on here and I like the way that unsubstantiated, sensationalist clickbait about escalation is called out as such.

I’m not able to contribute anything insightful about what’s going on, sorry, but I really value these threads

I’ve been struggling to keep up with these threads but I have followed them from the start…that screenshot you shared has made me well up! I keep thinking the exact same…what world have I brought my babies in to? It’s such a scary time.
Justanotherlurker · 06/03/2022 22:04

If I could edit to add I would add I do however agree with the comment that these videos (so far) ate not something The Hague is going to worry about.

Exactly, there is a lot of stuff from Chechens/Wagner, the Hague aren't going to care about random civillian militia making a downed pilot say something they shouldn't on camera, I tried to make the point last night, The Hague understands the fog of war scenario a lot more than some MN'ers trying to scream that it's "breaking the law"

Going for a technical win doesn't mean anything to the man who has sent his wife and kids away and is forced/wants to defend his country

timetochangeusername · 06/03/2022 22:09

Just to add to the post @Catquestion screenshotted, I have anxiety and I try and live by 'I am here now '. I had cancer when a new (single) mum and for a long while my life was completely paralysed by the fear that I would die and leave dd alone. I used to put her to bed and cry and then be awake a lot of the night in a state of white hot fear. Eventually, I found a way of coping with the anxiety with this quote which I read from an interview with Sheila Hancock.

All you can deal with is now, and try and avoid projecting into the future , hard though that is.

Notonthestairs · 06/03/2022 22:10

twitter.com/johnsimpsonnews/status/1500471354671439872?s=21

"They say in their interview that they wanted to talk about the orders they’d received, and they certainly didn’t seem to be under any constraints."

You can find the 21 minute I/v on John Simpson Twitter feed.

PestorPeston · 06/03/2022 22:12

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notimagain · 06/03/2022 22:12

There’s a bit of analysis of how difficult the analysis Hmm of all this is here,

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/06/clear-picture-russian-war-ukraine-clouded-unknowns-lack-reliable-information

Branster · 06/03/2022 22:13

@EssexLioness

Thank you *@toastfiend*, that is interesting! I hate that this scares me so much as I know That is exactly what Putin wants. I also feel selfish to be scared when the Ukraines are the ones suffering.

Where is everyone looking for reliable balanced reports of all this? I am mostly relying on the BBC and don’t use Twitter but feel like I would like to see more of other countries viewpoints on this too.

BBC would not be the first choice. Try and google local news from other countries as sometimes they have English versions.
Justanotherlurker · 06/03/2022 22:13

Sorry @cakeorwine, thanks for the clarification earlier re German weapons, I couldn't find the tweet yesterday

PestorPeston · 06/03/2022 22:16

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RedToothBrush · 06/03/2022 22:17

Some talk that Russian is completely disconnecting from the global Internet by 11th March and all website etc must be on a Russian based server.

Now I know this idea has some credibility.

In 2019 a law was passed enabling this in principle

They have since done some tests on this.

www.businessinsider.com/russia-cuts-self-off-from-global-internet-tests-defenses-rbc-2021-7?r=US&IR=T
Russia disconnected itself from the rest of the internet, a test of its new defense from cyber warfare, report says

Reading about this a little bit, it looks like they've only trialled this in section - not the whole thing at once.

The fact that this has been in the planning for so long, perhaps says a lot.

In terms of what it means in practice, im not entirely sure. Nor am i sure as to whether that means cyber attacks here are more likely.

TheSillyMastiff · 06/03/2022 22:18

Russian occupiers rape women in Kherson. The girls are asked to stay at home and not go outside
This was reported to "Rubrics" by locals.

There are currently 11 confirmed cases of rape by the Russian occupiers in Kherson. According to the doctor of the Karabelesh polyclinic, five of the victims survived.

Locals spread messages for women and girls of the city - do not leave the house at all.

We will remind that invaders entered the city on March 1.

Source: Hybrid Warfare Analytical Group.

Again I can not 100% verify this, but statistics on violence against women are starting to filter through many channels, awaiting a UN Women's report which will soon follow in the coming weeks.

alltheapples · 06/03/2022 22:19

@TheSillyMastiff

"OVD says that in total 13,028 protestors have now been arrested in Russia since Moscow invaded Ukraine."

Source: BBC

I must say the courage of those protesting Russia right now is also astounding! And not to be forgotten. They really did understand the saying;

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

Yes, so many brave people.