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The Invasion is ongoing...Part 8

999 replies

Damnloginpopup · 04/03/2022 22:14

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11
52andblue · 06/03/2022 08:53

@borntobequiet

He's writing an essay. For a Newspaper. Fucking hell last time he did that we got Brexit.

He’s probably written another one about why the invasion is a Good Thing and has agonised for days before deciding which one to publish.

Yes. And, like last time, its All About Johnson's need to look like he's Doing Something & the consequences seem less important to him (but not the rest of us...)
AgnesWestern · 06/03/2022 08:57

I must admit I’m worried since reading that us in Britain have been spoken to directly. My stomach has been doing flips all night.

I just wonder what their threat of retaliation might mean. I very much doubt it’ll be nukes as we are part of NATO therefore an attack on us is an attack on all.

I don’t think Boris will say he’ll implement a no fly zone. The rest of NATO doesn’t seem to want that due to Putin’s comments about it being a declaration of war. So why would he do that? I’m pretty certain he doesn’t want Britain to go to war with Russia.
I know he comes across as blustering and bumbling , but as much as it pains me to say it, I don’t think he’s stupid.

Satsumaeater · 06/03/2022 08:57

Obituaries and book reviews are often the most interesting sections in a newspaper. Today I was reading review about a book about the significance of economic sanctions and its premise is that sanctions employed by the League of Nations was one of the reasons Hitler entered into the Ribbentrop-Molontov pact because he wanted grain from what is now Ukraine.

It also mentions that in the 19th century war was war and business was business and even during the Crimean war, the Russian and British both serviced each other's sovereign debt.

It also said that economic sanctions didn't work when Italy invaded what is now Ethiopia in 1936.

It also talked about the origins of the word boycott - I imagine Irish MNers already knew this, but the first boycott was a rent strike against a land owner called Boycott in Ireland.

HeadPain · 06/03/2022 08:58

This thread. mobile.twitter.com/Ash_Stewart_/status/1500221871760949250

Russians keep opening fire on civilians in cars killing them. Surely this i s more war crimes

MsJinks · 06/03/2022 08:58

I really didn’t see anything I didn’t already know/think was being done on the 6 point plan - I felt it was just sort of summarising U.K. position rather than an innovative plan. I don’t feel we’re particularly important on the world stage, or useful, except as a tool for Russia to troll or threaten - it would be interesting to understand exactly how we are perceived by Russia and also Europe / US and where we now are in some world influence order eg/ how respected as a power in general not just under current leadership. I have an idea but it doesn’t fit with the government idea for sure and maybe I’m being unfair due to recent domestic events that maybe aren’t so relevant on a global scale.
Regarding history learned in U.K. - at least England- I think it’s appalling now in terms of structure and understanding of key events. My daughter learned a lot in secondary about medicine in WW2 but nothing about causes of it or key events for example. I also think there’s something to be said for an early overview of a timeline of key events to get a sense of what and when if not why - though I know that’s old fashioned. What has struck me lately is friends from Asia or the Middle East have a much greater knowledge of their county’s history but shockingly often more knowledge of the UK’s history than we seem to know. Maybe it’s not just education based but culture/family learning and knowledge. It is obvious that no country can be neutral in its history education but we could be more detailed here - I do find it interesting hearing the different narratives and perspectives between east and west.

HeadPain · 06/03/2022 09:00

@RedToothBrush

You know that big table with lots of women sat next to Putin earlier today...

Well, I think in this wonderful bit of propaganda, what Mr Zelensky is trying to say is,
twitter.com/llamedos77/status/1500237736845926400

Look at the magic semi transparent microphone.

I did say it looked like a staged event and was about optics. What wasn't quite what I was alluding to! I have no idea if it is blue screen or not, but it certainly does make you think it might be!

This is quite special as propaganda goes. I take my hat up to whoever in Ukraine came up with this absoluete gem, whether it be Zelensky or one of his team. This is quite brilliant.

That big long table image is haunting Putin!

Oh yeh how weird it comes from this clip and yes I think I do see that weird thing happen mobile.twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1500105025762340877
MarshaBradyo · 06/03/2022 09:00

As long as we’re firm on not going for a no fly zone then fine.

Then I’d feel very differently

Satsumaeater · 06/03/2022 09:02

Also, if you want a thought-provoking take on the situation, look at this Twitter feed: twitter.com/gathara

Peregrina · 06/03/2022 09:06

Totally agree. 300 have reached Calais and have been told to go to Paris to get visas. A 400mile round trip after fleeing a war. Shocking.

I wish someone in the Embassy in Paris would have the nous to get on a train and go to Calais with a pile of visa forms and set up shop in the Eurostar Terminal. What exactly could Priti Patel do to stop them, without looking even more heartless than she already does?

Feelingthepinch22 · 06/03/2022 09:08

I don't understand are zelinsky & putin secretly signalling each other?

Rarenamer · 06/03/2022 09:10

@Feelingthepinch22 I think zelinsky is showing that microphones move when touched if they’re real.

But if it’s a green screen they don’t.

Thewayshetalks · 06/03/2022 09:12

A lot of people on twitter saying the video is fake but a lot of analysts saying it is real and it’s the background making it look dodge

MarshaBradyo · 06/03/2022 09:14

Samsung has stopped supplying in Russia (bigger than Apple as smartphone providers there)

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-04/samsung-suspends-shipments-of-phones-chips-to-russia

peridito · 06/03/2022 09:19

Could someone talk me through the Israel /Russia relationship and the significance of Bennett's discussions with Putin .And Zelensky ?

notimagain · 06/03/2022 09:19

@HeadPain

This thread. mobile.twitter.com/Ash_Stewart_/status/1500221871760949250

Russians keep opening fire on civilians in cars killing them. Surely this i s more war crimes

One for the lawyers but context would be everything.

“Law Of Armed Conflict” was /is required knowledge for many, blog on part of the topic here:

loacblog.com/loac-basics/4-basic-principles/

I fully accept that that Russians may well not give a toss about LOAC.

HeadPain · 06/03/2022 09:20

Apparent Belarusian volunteers fighting for Ukraine against Russia, "calling on all real men to join them"... mobile.twitter.com/worldonalert/status/1500230404514668548

RobynMyEmployer · 06/03/2022 09:20

It could well be possible (based on growing evidence) that the biggest threat to Russia from this war has been to demonstrate its lack of military capability (I'm specifically talking non nuclear).

In the West we are used to "measuring" this by numbers. How many tanks? How many soldiers? How many fighter jets?

If you consider the forces (in numbers) Russia targeted at Ukraine it should have been a quick victory. Many, many analysts did not expect Ukraine to hold out for more than a few days.

We've all been watching the progress of the "mighty" convey inching to the capital. Its scale and size is terrifying.

Yet something is "off". Russia has not established air superiority. Their elite VDV (paratroopers) have suffered massive losses, including its Deputy Commander.

Vehicles in the convey and elsewhere are showing signs of poor maintenance and lack of logistical support.

Communication is routinely being recorded by radio hams on short wave frequencies demonstrating a lack of ability to plan operations securely.

The Ukrainian army and population have fought hard and that is absolutely a factor, but it doesn't explain what's happening in totality.

It's becoming more credible that "numbers" when it comes to Russian military prowess really isn't everything.

Sending poorly trained soldiers, style over substance "elite" troops and pilots with limited air experience into battle in an age of technology, using analog communications, poorly maintained machines with food rations that expired in 2015 isn't a disadvantage that sheer force of numbers can necessarily overcome.

The reality is that this war has demonstrated Russia' s lack of military prowess - an extraordinary backfire.

Yes, but let's not forget that the UK/US were completely incapable of taking control of Afghanistan and had to concede to the Taliban after 20 years of failed attempts.

Andouillette · 06/03/2022 09:22

@Galdb

Do you think maybe other politicians in other countries do the same in their newspapers but we just don’t see it? (Hopeful)
Yes of course they do! It's even reported here. There's been plenty of 'posturing' from all sorts of people. I find (for instance) M. Macron's almost constant "Look at me, I am very busy talking to and visiting Mr.Putin" stuff more that slightly dubious. I also find the superyacht seizures by some countries to be more about the optics than being in any way actually useful as well as being quite provocative in themselves. But -and this is important- I don't particularly think that any of this provoking is wrong. Putin has wound himself up to quite a pitch anyway and will continue to do so. He favours divide and rule, how about we don't let him?
vera99 · 06/03/2022 09:23

Peter Hitchens is like some despondent orthodox monk hang wringing in misery at the venality of the fallen world and crying at our misguidedness (he is traditional Christian) and suffers as being less of a great writer or raconteur in the shadow of his late brother's reputation. But I believe him to be an honourable if the sometimes misguided man who speaks what he believes and his view in the Mail today adds a different take on the tragedy unfolding in Ukraine and FWIW I certainly believe his protestations he is no paid shill for Putin.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10581335/PETER-HITCHENS-saw-coming-Thats-wont-join-carnival-hypocrisy.html

PestorPeston · 06/03/2022 09:24

[quote Satsumaeater]Also, if you want a thought-provoking take on the situation, look at this Twitter feed: twitter.com/gathara[/quote]
I've been following gathara for years, it is always good to see things from alternative angles.

Wrongkindofovercoat · 06/03/2022 09:25

Just catching up with the thread, but aren't Visa and Mastercard also preventing Russian citizens from using their services outside Russia as well ?
Mastercard seemed to be having some problems yesterday or maybe it was just the Co-op ?

HijadelaLuna · 06/03/2022 09:27

As a German having lived in the uk for a long time it pains me to see how passively brits are reacting to the uk governments treatment of ukrainian refugees. I have Never heard so much negative sentiment regarding britain in Germany than in the last few days.

HeadPain · 06/03/2022 09:29

Also

"According to Putin's plan, Belarus’ troops had to enter Ukraine a week ago. But something went wrong. Some officers resigned, some fled Belarus and contacted us. Conscripts are massively fleeing. Apparently, some generals opposed the participation of Belarus in the war."

mobile.twitter.com/franakviacorka/status/1500197649307348994

"video of a retired and decorated Belarus colonel advising their soldiers to desert or to refuse to go into Ukraine"

mobile.twitter.com/JimMBuzz/status/1500218992736317447

StAgur · 06/03/2022 09:30

An alternative view, which I am not posting because I share it, but gives a different perspective, when trying to decipher WHY this has happened. No apologies for linking to a DM article; I read newspapers of all persuasions to try to understand things. On any view, the Ukrainians and their president are extraordinarily brave, but I do think that the West have blood on their hands in relation to other conflicts.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10581335/PETER-HITCHENS-saw-coming-Thats-wont-join-carnival-hypocrisy.html

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