The Invasion is ongoing...Part 8

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Following on...

To be honest its not putin im worried about he has such an inflated opinion of himself i generally just find his grand speeches slightly amusing its Boris doing something stupid im worried about.

I also agree with those saying theres nothing that Russia could release about our government that anyone would find remotely surprising, at this point im sure we would all just roll our eyes and shrug our shoulders instead of being outraged. We kind of expect them to have fucked up in a big way now it would be more surprising if they did something right!

@smilingthroughgrittedteeth

To be honest its not putin im worried about he has such an inflated opinion of himself i generally just find his grand speeches slightly amusing its Boris doing something stupid im worried about.

I also agree with those saying theres nothing that Russia could release about our government that anyone would find remotely surprising, at this point im sure we would all just roll our eyes and shrug our shoulders instead of being outraged. We kind of expect them to have fucked up in a big way now it would be more surprising if they did something right!

Something stupid in what way? Throwing troops over there sort of thing?

As awful as Putin has been he needs an off ramp to save face while the war can end and Ukraine can rebuild

I agree but doesn't it come to something when the world has to appease a dictator. As this article says .. we've been appeasing him for too long and Ukraine is paying the price.

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/world/putins-descent-to-dictatorship

As far as Zelensky saving face, more than happy with that. He isn't a dictator invading another country.

Just watched an article on the BBC showing Dr David Nott (War Doctor) doing online training to hundreds of Ukrainian surgeons yesterday. He was teaching them conflict surgery for blast, gunshot, shrapnel wounds.

David Nott has extensive experience as a trauma surgeon in Syria, Afghanistan, Haiti etc. He wrote a brilliant book about his work in conflict zones and has a foundation to teach the life saving surgery techniques to those in the field. He is a truly amazing human.

www.amazon.co.uk/War-Doctor-Surgery-Front-Line/dp/1509837035?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

I think it's pathetic, with Johnson and his six point plan, which seems to say nothing much, to pretend that he's a leading figure on the world stage.

If he does want to show leadership, he could allow those Ukrainians at Calais to board the Eurostar without a visa, for a starter, but no, such a small humanitarian gesture is beyond this Government.

@Galdb
Agree with @Thewayshetalks
Been following the Dutch press on and off - Rutte is highly supportive of Ukraine and comments on Twitter but no big statements, initiatives.

@Bowbridge
Thanks for this. Will read.

@MarshaBradyo that’s how I am reading it too.

It almost feels like he’s prodding the bear to prove that the bear won’t actually do anything. Feels rather high risk but I am hopeful that despite the apparent blustering bumble, someone behind the scenes knows that they’re doing. I was thinking back to Luz Truss “supporting” people going to Ukraine and she looked uncomfortable. At the time I thought she just wasn’t sure if her position, but it must have been deliberate as there’s no way she wouldn’t have known that she was encouraging ppl to break the law. I don’t know but it’s a bit like standing up to the bully, beyond the threats what can they actually do? Their progress in Ukraine is showing that they’re not all that.

Not so much throwing troops over there obviously he is stuck with NATO rules preventing him but more along the lines of deciding to support a no fly zone

As much as Zelensky has been a real force the last week, he has stepped up and shown that he is a real leader of the people, I can’t shake the feeling that yes he would have to sacrifice giving in and admitting defeat to Russia but if not Russia will carry on killing civilians, surely he knows that, and as the days drag on they are killing more and more, clearly they will not stop, clearly the peace talks don’t do a lot of good, surely there has to be a moment where he just says ok let’s stop to save lives.

@Peregrina

I think it's pathetic, with Johnson and his six point plan, which seems to say nothing much, to pretend that he's a leading figure on the world stage.

If he does want to show leadership, he could allow those Ukrainians at Calais to board the Eurostar without a visa, for a starter, but no, such a small humanitarian gesture is beyond this Government.

I completely agree. It’s shameful and embarrassing, all of it. In the middle of all of this they are still trying to play to the anti-immigrant vote. They are incompetent, selfish, and ignorant .

@yoolia

Everyone I know (IRL, not on this thread) who lived through the cold war is utterly blase about this escalating.

Are they? I've lived through the cold War and I'm not blasé at all. My husband is the same.

[quote Gingerwarthog]@jgw1
@ChardonnaysPetDragon
Makes it even more worrying if he believes his own bullshit....
[/quote]
Of course he does.

In history Kiev as it was at the time, was one of the earliest capitals of Russia. The Kievan Rus was one of the earliest Russian states. It's not easy for an empire to move on.

Lol all Boris will say is how very naughty it is and how we must condemn it

If he does want to show leadership, he could allow those Ukrainians at Calais to board the Eurostar without a visa, for a starter, but no, such a small humanitarian gesture is beyond this Government

Totally agree. 300 have reached Calais and have been told to go to Paris to get visas.
A 400mile round trip after fleeing a war. Shocking.

Or simply set up a visa processing office (or whatever bit of administration is needed) in Calais. Appalling.

@smilingthroughgrittedteeth

Not so much throwing troops over there obviously he is stuck with NATO rules preventing him but more along the lines of deciding to support a no fly zone

He would look a bit of a prat (I realise this isn’t a new thing) as the only country standing up to say yes let’s do it, hopefully Biden and whoever else is on the world leader WhatsApp group chat can tell him to shut up.

[quote brogueish]@MarshaBradyo that’s how I am reading it too.

It almost feels like he’s prodding the bear to prove that the bear won’t actually do anything. Feels rather high risk but I am hopeful that despite the apparent blustering bumble, someone behind the scenes knows that they’re doing. I was thinking back to Luz Truss “supporting” people going to Ukraine and she looked uncomfortable. At the time I thought she just wasn’t sure if her position, but it must have been deliberate as there’s no way she wouldn’t have known that she was encouraging ppl to break the law. I don’t know but it’s a bit like standing up to the bully, beyond the threats what can they actually do? Their progress in Ukraine is showing that they’re not all that.[/quote]
A few times Putin has said the opposite to his actions - we won’t invade, we are not at war etc

I also think he’s flailing a bit and has just picked Britain for a bit

I don’t feel more at risk and hope people aren’t so anxious they can’t sleep etc. maybe take a break from media

Smiling why worry?

Unlike Ukraine if Putin does something it's going to start ww3.

Obviously horrendous but it means we can actually fight back And not just us... NATO.

We won't be left struggling.

Really interesting Twitter thread, with all the usual caveats about authenticity

twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937?s=21

@Motorina
Yes that's a great, sensible practical suggestion.
Bureaucracy getting in the way of quick humanitarian support - again.

Oh and in the end reassuring too

@Thewayshetalks

As much as Zelensky has been a real force the last week, he has stepped up and shown that he is a real leader of the people, I can’t shake the feeling that yes he would have to sacrifice giving in and admitting defeat to Russia but if not Russia will carry on killing civilians, surely he knows that, and as the days drag on they are killing more and more, clearly they will not stop, clearly the peace talks don’t do a lot of good, surely there has to be a moment where he just says ok let’s stop to save lives.

Given the history of Russia and Ukraine, he may well consider that mass civilian casualties in war is a less bad option than the prospect of a Russian occupation. He would have a point: Stalin committed what was in effect a genocide there in the 1930s, and I can't imagine it's been forgotten.

BBC are reporting a ceasefire is taking place today in Mariupol

David Nott has extensive experience as a trauma surgeon in Syria, Afghanistan, Haiti etc.

Wonderful man. Listen to his Desert Island Discs here:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07djzyq