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The Invasion is ongoing...Part 8

999 replies

Damnloginpopup · 04/03/2022 22:14

Following on...

OP posts:
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Damnloginpopup · 04/03/2022 22:16

Blimey, have just logged on and it rolled from 999 to 1000 posts. Busy night after a very scary 24hrs.

OP posts:
FatFredsFriedEgg · 04/03/2022 22:16

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4496068-The-invasion-is-a-Week-Old-Part-7

EezyOozy · 04/03/2022 22:16

Looks like we have two threads x

dreamingbohemian · 04/03/2022 22:17

Thanks OP!

Damnloginpopup · 04/03/2022 22:18

Thanks @FatFredsFriedEgg I just came on to add the link

OP posts:
workisnotawolf · 04/03/2022 22:18

Attacking journalists could amount to a war fine, in so far as they qualify as civilians.

BoreOfWhabylon · 04/03/2022 22:19

Thanks for the thread

FatFredsFriedEgg · 04/03/2022 22:20

@hassletassle

Looks like we have two threads x
I've reported the other thread for deletion - I was only filling in.
Natsku · 04/03/2022 22:20

Thanks for the thread

dreamingbohemian · 04/03/2022 22:21

Thank you too FatFreds :)

Tigersonvaseline · 04/03/2022 22:27

Putin hate's journalists!!

TheSillyMastiff · 04/03/2022 22:28

That footage of the sky news team is terrifying! I'm sure I can hear their heart beating! So glad all were ok and the armour did it's job.

Justanotherlurker · 04/03/2022 22:29

Attacking journalists could amount to a war fine, in so far as they qualify as civilians.

Those attacking are not 'official' soldiers, there are videos of Russian red cross emblemed vehicles carry amunition which is a war crime.

Putin isn't worried about war crimes at this point, it's not like he is going to hand himself in, nor anyone from the west being able to bring him to trial.

derxa · 04/03/2022 22:29

,

workisnotawolf · 04/03/2022 22:31

Still every possible incident of war crime needs to be recorded as accurately as possible. Gather evidence, prosecute later, if he ever leaves the country.

aweekoldnow · 04/03/2022 22:31

@FatFredsFriedEgg by invaded you mean supplied arms to separatists? I was trying to explain that history is unlikely to see it as you have described, because it is a lot more complicated than you are suggesting, but if you don't agree then you don't agree. It is important to understand sequences of events in their complexity, motivations, the acts of both "sides" where funding was coming from and other foreign power influences etc

@drblackbird just to quickly respond to your last post on the other thread that it is important to try to understand the whole situation and wider issues accurately and in full, because understanding it will influence what happens in the future and achieving peace. It is possible to do this at the same time as we watch the news and feel horrified/do things to help/feel helpless/find it hard to concentrate or sleep. It isn't one or the other.

Fiefofum · 04/03/2022 22:33

@aweekoldnow <a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20220227201225/uz.sputniknews.ru/20220226/nastuplenie-rossii-i-novogo-mira-22994815.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20220227201225/uz.sputniknews.ru/20220226/nastuplenie-rossii-i-novogo-mira-22994815.html

This article published by the Kremlin ‘on their victory in Ukraine’ on Sunday 27th Feb but since deleted when they realised that it was premature.

Google translated:

“Russia is restoring its historical fullness, gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together - in its entirety of Great Russians, Belarusians and Little Russians.
A new world is being born before our eyes. Russia's military operation in Ukraine has ushered in a new era - and in three dimensions at once. And of course, in the fourth, internal Russian. Here begins a new period both in ideology and in the very model of our socio-economic system - but this is worth talking about separately a little later.
Russia is restoring its unity - the tragedy of 1991, this terrible catastrophe in our history, its unnatural dislocation, has been overcome. Yes, at a great cost, yes, through the tragic events of a virtual civil war, because now brothers, separated by belonging to the Russian and Ukrainian armies, are still shooting at each other, but there will be no more Ukraine as anti-Russia. Russia is restoring its historical fullness, gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together - in its entirety of Great Russians, Belarusians and Little Russians. If we had abandoned this, if we had allowed the temporary division to take hold for centuries, then we would not only betray the memory of our ancestors, but would also be cursed by our descendants for allowing the disintegration of the Russian land.
Denazification is the liberation of Ukraine >>
Vladimir Putin has assumed, without a drop of exaggeration, a historic responsibility by deciding not to leave the solution of the Ukrainian question to future generations. After all, the need to solve it would always remain the main problem for Russia - for two key reasons. And the issue of national security, that is, the creation of anti-Russia from Ukraine and an outpost for the West to put pressure on us, is only the second most important among them.
The first would always be the complex of a divided people, the complex of national humiliation - when the Russian house first lost part of its foundation (Kiev), and then was forced to come to terms with the existence of two states, not one, but two peoples. That is, either to abandon their history, agreeing with the insane versions that "only Ukraine is the real Russia," or to gnash one's teeth helplessly, remembering the times when "we lost Ukraine." Returning Ukraine, that is, turning it back to Russia, would be more and more difficult with every decade - recoding, de-Russification of Russians and inciting Ukrainian Little Russians against Russians would gain momentum.
Russia urges other countries to recognize DPR and LPR - MFA >>
Now this problem is gone - Ukraine has returned to Russia. This does not mean that its statehood will be liquidated, but it will be reorganized, re-established and returned to its natural state of part of the Russian world. Within what boundaries, in what form will the alliance with Russia be consolidated (through the CSTO and the Eurasian Union or the Union State of Russia and Belarus)? This will be decided after the end is put in the history of Ukraine as anti-Russia. In any case, the period of the split of the Russian people is coming to an end.
And here begins the second dimension of the coming new era - it concerns Russia's relations with the West. Not even Russia, but the Russian world, that is, three states, Russia, Belarus and Ukraine, acting in geopolitical terms as a single whole. These relations have entered a new stage - the West sees the return of Russia to its historical borders in Europe. And he is loudly indignant at this, although in the depths of his soul he must admit to himself that it could not be otherwise.
Crimes of the Ukrainian authorities against civilians >>
Did someone in the old European capitals, in Paris and Berlin, seriously believe that Moscow would give up Kyiv? That the Russians will forever be a divided people? And at the same time when Europe is uniting, when the German and French elites are trying to seize control of European integration from the Anglo-Saxons and assemble a united Europe? Forgetting that the unification of Europe became possible only thanks to the unification of Germany, which took place according to the good Russian (albeit not very smart) will. To swipe after that also on Russian lands is not even the height of ingratitude, but of geopolitical stupidity. The West as a whole, and even more so Europe in particular, did not have the strength to keep Ukraine in its sphere of influence, and even more so to take Ukraine for itself. In order not to understand this, one had to be just geopolitical fools.
More precisely, there was only one option: to bet on the further collapse of Russia, that is, the Russian Federation. But the fact that it did not work should have been clear twenty years ago. And already fifteen years ago, after Putin's Munich speech, even the deaf could hear - Russia is returning.
Chance of Ukraine >>
Now the West is trying to punish Russia for the fact that it returned, for not justifying its plans to profit at its expense, for not allowing the expansion of the western space to the east. Seeking to punish us, the West thinks that relations with it are of vital importance to us. But this has not been the case for a long time - the world has changed, and this is well understood not only by Europeans, but also by the Anglo-Saxons who rule the West. No amount of Western pressure on Russia will lead to anything. There will be losses from the sublimation of confrontation on both sides, but Russia is ready for them morally and geopolitically. But for the West itself, an increase in the degree of confrontation incurs huge costs - and the main ones are not at all economic.
Europe, as part of the West, wanted autonomy - the German project of European integration does not make strategic sense while maintaining the Anglo-Saxon ideological, military and geopolitical control over the Old World. Yes, and it cannot be successful, because the Anglo-Saxons need a controlled Europe. But Europe needs autonomy for another reason as well — in case the States go into self-isolation (as a result of growing internal conflicts and contradictions) or focus on the Pacific region, where the geopolitical center of gravity is moving.
The results of the first day of the special operation of the RF Armed Forces in Ukraine: 72 hours before the surrender of Kyiv >>
But the confrontation with Russia, into which the Anglo-Saxons are dragging Europe, deprives the Europeans of even the chances of independence - not to mention the fact that in the same way Europe is trying to impose a break with China. If now the Atlanticists are happy that the "Russian threat" will unite the Western bloc, then in Berlin and Paris they cannot fail to understand that, having lost hope for autonomy, the European project will simply collapse in the medium term. That is why independent-minded Europeans are now completely uninterested in building a new iron curtain on their eastern borders - realizing that it will turn into a corral for Europe. Whose century (more precisely, half a millennium) of global leadership is over in any case - but various options for its future are still possible.
Because the construction of a new world order - and this is the third dimension of current events - is accelerating, and its contours are more and more clearly visible through the spreading cover of Anglo-Saxon globalization. A multipolar world has finally become a reality - the operation in Ukraine is not capable of rallying anyone but the West against Russia. Because the rest of the world sees and understands perfectly well - this is a conflict between Russia and the West, this is a response to the geopolitical expansion of the Atlanticists, this is Russia's return of its historical space and its place in the world.
Sosnovsky: Zelensky's stopwatch went to zero, his time is up >>
China and India, Latin America and Africa, the Islamic world and Southeast Asia - no one believes that the West leads the world order, much less sets the rules of the game. Russia has not only challenged the West, it has shown that the era of Western global domination can be considered completely and finally over. The new world will be built by all civilizations and centers of power, naturally, together with the West (united or not) - but not on its terms and not according to its rules.”
Source: RIA Novosti

TheSillyMastiff · 04/03/2022 22:33

@Justanotherlurker

Attacking journalists could amount to a war fine, in so far as they qualify as civilians.

Those attacking are not 'official' soldiers, there are videos of Russian red cross emblemed vehicles carry amunition which is a war crime.

Putin isn't worried about war crimes at this point, it's not like he is going to hand himself in, nor anyone from the west being able to bring him to trial.

Indeed, he will just stay on Russian soil till the day he dies, locked in his Siberian bunker probably.
timetochangeusername · 04/03/2022 22:34

.

FatFredsFriedEgg · 04/03/2022 22:35

by invaded you mean supplied arms to separatists?

They've sent Russian troops/militias/mercenaries in - the 'Little Green Men'. Surely you know that if you've an interest in the region?

CaveMum · 04/03/2022 22:35

Placemarking before I go to bed. Try not to fill up half a thread by morning won’t you all Wink

aweekoldnow · 04/03/2022 22:36

@Justanotherlurker

Attacking journalists could amount to a war fine, in so far as they qualify as civilians.

Those attacking are not 'official' soldiers, there are videos of Russian red cross emblemed vehicles carry amunition which is a war crime.

Putin isn't worried about war crimes at this point, it's not like he is going to hand himself in, nor anyone from the west being able to bring him to trial.

I was wondering about this, about evidence. The Kremlin is saying that all the attacks on civilians are by Ukrainians in Russian uniform, or seized equipment. They are also saying I think that missiles have been sent off target by Ukrainians, and that they can prove it. Does anyone with specialist knowledge know how easy it is to prove anything one way or the other? Thanks
FatFredsFriedEgg · 04/03/2022 22:36

And yes, it is important to understand sequences of events.

Not to try and distort sequences of events.

TheSillyMastiff · 04/03/2022 22:37

@FatFredsFriedEgg

by invaded you mean supplied arms to separatists?

They've sent Russian troops/militias/mercenaries in - the 'Little Green Men'. Surely you know that if you've an interest in the region?

Indeed, I mean Russia had to divert troops from Ukraine to Syria in 2015. Wasn't just the supply of arms at all.
Justanotherlurker · 04/03/2022 22:38

Still every possible incident of war crime needs to be recorded as accurately as possible. Gather evidence, prosecute later, if he ever leaves the country.

It will be, but at the minute those attacking the press aren't official russian soldiers, it won't change Russian tactics etc and if it gets to a point of prosecution, shooting at journalists will be a footnote (not trying to downplay it)