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The Invasion is ongoing...Part 8

999 replies

Damnloginpopup · 04/03/2022 22:14

Following on...

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RedToothBrush · 05/03/2022 00:14

Ukraine captured documents they thought were plans. They published them. They seemed to show that Russian expected to take the whole country in 15 days. But they knew by that point the Russians were already well behind schedule.

Now, I've been online looking at twitter noise around this time most of this week (i need an early night but DH is still pissing about so I can't get to sleep before he decides to give it up). Anyway I was thinking that the twitter noise about bombs seems quiet so thought I'd go check.

First tweet I've seen seems to confirm my impression as it goes

Tim White @TWMCLtd
First reports of bombs hitting #Kharkiv in east Ukraine a few minutes ago

#Kyiv is quiet

A few air raid sirens around the country, but I've seen NO reports of other attacks. Communication difficult with some areas, so I'm sure there are some but far fewer missiles than of late

I may cross every part of my body for Ukraine tonight and hope things are much quieter.

The problem with analogue comms with no encryption (other than giving away your position and getting you killed) is this:
Christo Grozev @christogrozev
War of words, songs and bombs: Russian offices struggle to communicate attack plans on short-wave radio, while Ukraine jams them with... their national anthem. Shivers.
...anthem interspersed with messages including "death to the aggressor... and Putin the Dickhead...glory to Ukraine!"
(theres a recording to go with the tweet)

FatFredsFriedEgg · 05/03/2022 00:14

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DrBlackbird · 05/03/2022 00:21
Hmm

Seriously?!

RedToothBrush · 05/03/2022 00:23

[quote FatFredsFriedEgg]@DrBlackbird

Is this just what we want to believe though?[/quote]
Very possibly.

Theres a stack of photos which seem to suggest it could be possible though. These aren't verified. And they tie in with the US updates and observations.

On their own I possibly would just put it to propaganda. But together they start to build a compelling argument.

Its difficult to tell. If Kyiv does have a quieter night (and god i hope it does), i do think questions about munitions are the right ones to be seriously considering.

dreamingbohemian · 05/03/2022 00:24

I was wondering about this, about evidence. The Kremlin is saying that all the attacks on civilians are by Ukrainians in Russian uniform, or seized equipment. They are also saying I think that missiles have been sent off target by Ukrainians, and that they can prove it. Does anyone with specialist knowledge know how easy it is to prove anything one way or the other? Thanks

Please let's not give any headspace or airspace to these obvious Kremlin lies (and disingenuous questions about them)

The Ukrainians are not bombing their own cities. I mean come on.

DrBlackbird · 05/03/2022 00:28

Yes the fake ‘thanks’ at the end is jarring.

FatFredsFriedEgg · 05/03/2022 00:28

Would it be derailing to suggest that this is bullshit? Ukrainians are 'sending missiles off target' sounds like a false Russian claim to me (and are their missiles that shit anyway?).

DrBlackbird · 05/03/2022 00:29

RedToothBrush I’m willing to clutch at straws for those being bombed.

BreadInCaptivity · 05/03/2022 00:32

@dreamingbohemian

I was wondering about this, about evidence. The Kremlin is saying that all the attacks on civilians are by Ukrainians in Russian uniform, or seized equipment. They are also saying I think that missiles have been sent off target by Ukrainians, and that they can prove it. Does anyone with specialist knowledge know how easy it is to prove anything one way or the other? Thanks

Please let's not give any headspace or airspace to these obvious Kremlin lies (and disingenuous questions about them)

The Ukrainians are not bombing their own cities. I mean come on.

The fact the Russian media are spouting this is somewhat ironic in light of the evidence of false flag operations that secured Putin's position (details in link).

Essentially he's using his own tactics to try and discredit Ukraine.

https://news.yahoo.com/bloody-czar-did-false-flag-175812204.html?gucereferrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvLnVrLw&guceereferrersig=AQAAAAWUl7HPJvEvrXz8cz-nHizMw9Pe6IZREflsEPnjSSkeCa6ah01wrzgYe5O3EYRWbZjlY0ziCgZgluirFrhwRkZXS0b9QYnBtCvStpUtZdOwgGj9cKZ9D3HbVYztOG-gL4wC4sszLmwNmmccnDL5mDLYudHkRISAelPgETQKLb9u

EsmaCannonball · 05/03/2022 00:33

Anne Applebaum has been prophetic about Putin so far. If he succeeds in Ukraine he us not going to stop there because this was never about NATO.

Booklover3 · 05/03/2022 00:35

@EsmaCannonball

Anne Applebaum has been prophetic about Putin so far. If he succeeds in Ukraine he us not going to stop there because this was never about NATO.
Not only that but you can bet China is watching what’s happening with interest…
RedToothBrush · 05/03/2022 00:43

Trent Telenko @trenttelenko
Lady's and Gentlemen, boys & girls, it is time saddle up for another installment of the "Mud and Truck Maintenance in Ukraine" feed.

And this one will be a doozy, because we are talking about Russian truck refueling in the 64km column north of Kyiv.

I am going to expand on this earlier tweet on the satellite photo montage.

The Rasputitsa, bad tire maintenance, vehicle overcrowding, and lack of fuel have isolated most of this Russian Army column from its rear.
[rtb - rasputitsa is name for mud season]

No matter what kind of fuel conservation techniques they engaged in. The 1st 17km or so of that 64 km Russian Army column is out of fuel.

They planned a 3-day operation which is in its 8th day.

And given the temperatures and radio use, those vehicles have dead batteries.

This is why that Russian 41st CAA general was killed.

He showed up at the head of the column to unscrew the logistical mess, screaming at people and waving his arms in the air in visual range of a Ukrainian Army Sniper.

As for why the Ukrainians haven't rolled up those Russian troops in a 'motti' yet. They were busy.

The Russian Hostomel airbase occupation force had to be annihilated to keep fuel from being airlifted in by helicopter.

The head of this 64km column ain't going anywhere. With or without fuel. The Russians can get neither fuel trucks nor wreckers there.

And this "drop dead effect" is proceeding along the column from south to north. The ONLY way that column will move at all is backwards first

This is assuming it moves at all before the Ukrainians destroy it.

The front and middle of the column showed up with food, fuel & ammo for 3-days, & we are 8-days into the war.

The column is packed so tight that you can only refuel about 100-200 meters of column at a time

via a--holes & elbow by jerry cans. Then carefully back out those refueled trucks in order to get to the next 100 meters with the refueling truck and jerry cans.

It would take a week a month from now, when the ground dries, to unf--k this mess.

The Russian Army will not be able to move trucks off road before then.

Nor in a lot of cases will the Russian Army tanks in that column be able to move off road.

The Russians have formed the world's longest POW camp. And the Ukrainians don't have to feed it.

There simply hasn't been anything like this in warfare since the Anglo-American Anzio beachhead in 1944.

The Russian troops in the 40-50 km of the traffic jam closest to Kyiv will run out of food before the jam can be cleared to them.

They'll have to abandon their vehicles and walk north just to get food.

The reason the Russian column got to be so long was due to Russian Army officers “fulfilling the plan”.

They might be shot by the chain of command for disobeying orders to advance into the traffic jam, but won’t be if they obey orders to fulfill the plan.

I'm not saying Ukraine will win or even that Ukraine can prevent Kyiv from being encircled.

I am saying the Russian Army troops in the first 50 kilometers of that 64 km column will have nothing to do with it.

PS.
The Ukrainians really do want to motti that column.

PPS
And the Ukrainians do have the means to hit the fuel trucks at the North end of the Kyiv column to prevent its unwinding before the mud season is over.

RedToothBrush · 05/03/2022 00:52

Explaination of motti

medium.com/finland-stories/how-finns-used-the-motti-tactic-to-entrap-soviets-in-winter-war-part-3-7bf38d8eaf36

Basically identify the target, break the column into segments by attacking leaving sections trapped and then attack again making sections smaller. Psychologically, with no where to go, its terrifying and difficult to escape.

Sounds a lot like a turkey shoot.

Booklover3 · 05/03/2022 00:55

I’m thinking that Russia will probably aim to take all of the power plants in Ukraine?

RedToothBrush · 05/03/2022 00:56

Bill Browder @Billbrowder
This is really funny. Now that Apple has left Russia, Apple Maps has put Crimea back in Ukraine

BreadInCaptivity · 05/03/2022 01:06

@DrBlackbird

RedToothBrush I’m willing to clutch at straws for those being bombed.

It could well be possible (based on growing evidence) that the biggest threat to Russia from this war has been to demonstrate its lack of military capability (I'm specifically talking non nuclear).

In the West we are used to "measuring" this by numbers. How many tanks? How many soldiers? How many fighter jets?

If you consider the forces (in numbers) Russia targeted at Ukraine it should have been a quick victory. Many, many analysts did not expect Ukraine to hold out for more than a few days.

We've all been watching the progress of the "mighty" convey inching to the capital. Its scale and size is terrifying.

Yet something is "off". Russia has not established air superiority. Their elite VDV (paratroopers) have suffered massive losses, including its Deputy Commander.

Vehicles in the convey and elsewhere are showing signs of poor maintenance and lack of logistical support.

Communication is routinely being recorded by radio hams on short wave frequencies demonstrating a lack of ability to plan operations securely.

The Ukrainian army and population have fought hard and that is absolutely a factor, but it doesn't explain what's happening in totality.

It's becoming more credible that "numbers" when it comes to Russian military prowess really isn't everything.

Sending poorly trained soldiers, style over substance "elite" troops and pilots with limited air experience into battle in an age of technology, using analog communications, poorly maintained machines with food rations that expired in 2015 isn't a disadvantage that sheer force of numbers can necessarily overcome.

The reality is that this war has demonstrated Russia' s lack of military prowess - an extraordinary backfire.

RedToothBrush · 05/03/2022 01:16

Don't over egg it too much. Only one part of the plan looks to have had significant failures.

Things are going OK in the south for the Russians in relative terms.

blueshoes · 05/03/2022 01:18

redtoothbrush thanks for the explanation of motti.

I assumed it was a Ukrainian word for annihilate but turns out it is a specific war strategy for fighting columns of troops confined to roads. That imagery of the world's longest POW camp that is not being fed is particularly stark.

DoorWasAJar · 05/03/2022 01:25

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Damnloginpopup · 05/03/2022 01:26

@Booklover3

I’m thinking that Russia will probably aim to take all of the power plants in Ukraine?
Yeah. I'd expect the same
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BreadInCaptivity · 05/03/2022 01:30

www.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-special-forces-hold-off-russian-offensive-on-kyivs-front-lines-11646417190

"IRPIN, Ukraine—Every day for the past week, Russian forcess_ have tried to fight their way through this suburb of Kyiv to reach the Ukrainian capital. And every day, Ukrainian troops have forced them to retreat, leaving burning tanks and armored personnel carriers behind.
“We go out to hunt and destroy them,” said Volodymyr, a Ukrainian special-forces team leader, as his squad, armed with a British .308 sniper rifle and British-made antitank weapons, waited for the latest Russian attackk_. “They certainly didn’t come here expecting that, expecting that we know how to fight.”

BreadInCaptivity · 05/03/2022 01:33

From the same article:

"“We’re in shock at how dumb their behavior is,” said another member of the Ukrainian special-forces unit who has been going on missions in the area every night. His unit, he said, had lost two soldiers since the war began nine days ago, and killed more than 60 Russians in recent days. “Now, we mostly focus on hitting their rear, their supply convoys, because if they don’t get fuel, they can’t do anything.”

FacebookPhotos · 05/03/2022 01:33

That imagery of the world's longest POW camp that is not being fed is particularly stark.

Is there no requirement to feed POW? I thought there was tbh, but I’ve no idea why I thought that.

Thanks for the informative info in these threads as well. I’m a person who reduces anxiety by increasing my knowledge so it has really helped this week.

toastfiend · 05/03/2022 01:37

Re: war crimes, I was discussing it with someone who is in the military earlier and they made a connection that I hadn't - in Zelenskiy publicly calling citizens to fight and stating they would be armed (and arming them) it opens a potential discourse for Russia/Putin to claim that they were, therefore, legitimate targets. Obviously, we all know that that's not remotely the case, especially when thinking about children, and doesn't excuse indiscriminate shelling of residential areas and medical facilities. Putin has obviously overseen unforgiveable atrocities being committed on his orders against civilians in Ukraine, but we're also all well aware of Putin and his ministers' fondness for twisting words - and outright lying - to suit their rhetoric.

Damnloginpopup · 05/03/2022 01:40

@FacebookPhotos

That imagery of the world's longest POW camp that is not being fed is particularly stark.

Is there no requirement to feed POW? I thought there was tbh, but I’ve no idea why I thought that.

Thanks for the informative info in these threads as well. I’m a person who reduces anxiety by increasing my knowledge so it has really helped this week.

Yes but they aren't actual POWs, it's a figure of speech. They are prisoners if their situation
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