The invasion is a Week Old...Part 7

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Unbelievable. Thread 6 is almost full, to be found here : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4495271-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-6?pg=1

Still a fascinating and thoughtful set of documentation of our evolving thoughts, fears, questions, analyses and updates. And still a credit to the eyes, ears and knowledge of those on here.

Pinched from one poster on thread 6 whose name I can't recall:

Latest claims from both sides about casualties
Ukraine's army regularly puts out updates on the damage it says it's inflicting on Russian forces, which continue to press on key cities, particularly in the south.

We should stress that the BBC can't verify this information, but the latest update from the General Staff of the Armed Forces says that approximately 9,000 Russian personnel have been killed or wounded.

It also says Ukrainian forces have destroyed:

217 tanks
90 artillery systems
31 helicopters
30 planes or other aircraft
For its part, Russia yesterday for the first time gave a specific number for casualties it had suffered in Ukraine, saying 498 Russian soldiers had died and nearly 1,600 had been wounded.

It said it had killed 2,870 Ukrainian soldiers and "nationalists".

This is fucking crazy. They aren’t letting the fire service near.

So the reactors are the column like lines in your picture on the left?

NBC Chicago report that the area on fire is a disused area/safe area

Any Help?

www.reduper.com/industry/energy/power-station/nuclear/zaporizhia-nuclear-power-plant/

Bugger, tired, wrong one
www.npp.zp.ua/en/about-us/diagram
takes a while to load

Sorry, here’s another pic.
C= camera
F= fire

The red things are the reactors.

I think it’ll be ok…

@toastfiend

It looks like firing is taking place in the car park rather than near the reactor (for now, anyway). Obviously it's too close for comfort, but I don't think they're firing directly at the critical elements, judging by a plan of the plant someone posted on Twitter - obviously I know not everything on Twitter is to be taken as gospel and I appreciate it's not going to be that precise, but ultimately, what do they stand to gain by causing a nuclear meltdown? Russia would be among the worst affected. Putin might be suicidal (I don't personally think he is) and willing to take us all down in a radioactive blaze, but he's not the one doing the firing. Presumably the soldiers attacking the plant aren't all super keen on the idea of being obliterated. After Chernobyl and Fukushima I'd also be surprised if there weren't passive safety measures in place. I appreciate that no one will have planned for a war happening directly around it, but surely a nuclear power plant must have to have extensive safety systems to mitigate risk in the event of something as relatively commonplace as a fire?

The problem is that the shelling doesn't have to hit a reactor to be problematic. Nor does a fire.

If it critically damages power, cooling systems, skilled staff to divert/repair resources then the results could be catastrophic.

Modem reactors are very safe because they operate at VERY high levels of redundancy.

But you take out enough subsystems it's like playing Jenga and the "tower" becomes increasingly fragile.

This reactor provides 25% of Ukraine's electricity.

That's why they want it. No power = a massive reduction in morale and capability.

Think of blackouts in the underground Metro where thousands are sheltering. No ability to charge mobile devices - Ukraine is winning the media war and that's a good way to shut them off if nobody can film/post/tweet what's going on....

Cause a catastrophe and "it's the fault of Ukraine for not handing it over nicely to us" might play in Russia....

Google Maps very clear, just had a look. Fuck, not a good place for a reactor fire, hope it is office buildings and hope they can stop the fire.

Has anyone else’s link stopped streaming?

FWIW

Doesn't bear thinking about how Putin will play this.

Another site, more diagrams
www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/russia/vver-1000.htm

@BreadinCaptivity yes, I do understand that, it just seemed like a few people were panicking that a single direct hit would cause a massive explosion. I think we've just got to wait and see on this one, unfortunately. I have no doubt that that's why they want it, it makes sense tactically, even if it's a hideous thing to do morally.

I found this thread on Twitter kind of reassuring in the immediacy - twitter.com/energybants/status/1499546516293357568?t=hneWlxnuWnXdaToiDU8PmA&s=19

Plaice Mat King

Need to read up on what China is doing in the morning.

Thanks all for the info on Zaporizhzhia

@Thereisnolight

What does everyone think about Ukrainian men between 18-60 not allowed to leave Ukraine even if they want to? They are prisoners effectively. No Russian-bot hunters please. I’m genuinely wondering as I’m seeing no comment about this in the news.

I don't agree with it. 18 is so so young. I just think it's devastating to think that some mothers probably had to leave their 18 year old sons behind while fleeing with younger kids.

Personally I believe I would want to stay and fight, but I don't think that it should be forced.

The Ukrainian men between the ages of 18 and 60, not being allowed to flee to safety?
I personally think it's wrong, especially for the young ones who have not yet ''Lived''.

They will be untrained kids, if they survive , they will be likely damaged for life, PTSD &c.
I realise young men of the same age enlist into British Army, but that is via free choice, not conscripts.

Edit should also have said ''Young men and women enlist into British Army}

It's heartbreaking that so many people are being killed on both sides.

Johnson's latest release on BBC sounds ominous

@ItsDisneyBitch

Please don’t shout me down, but I would really like to understand what will happen to the Russian people during all this. I’m not talking about the ££££££ people or the government I could care less. I’m talking about the people that are like us.

The sanctions have decimated their economy? What happens to them? This is not a war that they want I presume going by the protests.

And what good will it do when co-op start saying well we aren’t selling Russian vodka? Will this not start the beginning of hate crimes across all Russians? The way there have been against say Muslims.

God I feel like I’m going to being a ‘not all men’ type I’m not I am asking a genuine question.

As long as people are living generally happy lives, the regime stays in power. We need the Russians to become miserable if we want them to change the regime. We also need to weaken Russia, they have proved to be too dangerous to the world with their power.

Has the follow thread option been removed as I can’t find it

@HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend

Has the follow thread option been removed as I can’t find it

No, it's still there, press the down arrow on the right, above the first post

CNN reporting that the fire has been extinguished

Placemark post - as I keep losing these threads. Thank you everyone for this knowledgeable discussion

Why the fuck would they bomb nuclear power plants. Do they not know what happened at Chernobyl.

What do people think of the rumours that Putin is dying, and that's why he's acting like this - he wanted to go out with one final act that would be remembered as the beginning of the new USSR, or something? It could be propaganda, but he does look sick. His face suggests steroid use...but that could be for all kinds of reasons.