The invasion is a Week Old...Part 7

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Unbelievable. Thread 6 is almost full, to be found here : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4495271-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-6?pg=1

Still a fascinating and thoughtful set of documentation of our evolving thoughts, fears, questions, analyses and updates. And still a credit to the eyes, ears and knowledge of those on here.

Pinched from one poster on thread 6 whose name I can't recall:

Latest claims from both sides about casualties
Ukraine's army regularly puts out updates on the damage it says it's inflicting on Russian forces, which continue to press on key cities, particularly in the south.

We should stress that the BBC can't verify this information, but the latest update from the General Staff of the Armed Forces says that approximately 9,000 Russian personnel have been killed or wounded.

It also says Ukrainian forces have destroyed:

217 tanks
90 artillery systems
31 helicopters
30 planes or other aircraft
For its part, Russia yesterday for the first time gave a specific number for casualties it had suffered in Ukraine, saying 498 Russian soldiers had died and nearly 1,600 had been wounded.

It said it had killed 2,870 Ukrainian soldiers and "nationalists".

what a worrying start to the morning,
the fire at the nuclear plant was in a training room and was able to be put out

I just woke up and looked at the news from overnight and literally felt like throwing up. What’s the situation with it now?

Surely if it blows up Russia will be impacted to? Especially if winds are blowing in that direction. Seems like a completely crazy move.

Have also woken up this morning & am shocked by the news. If it was to blow up (I know this looks unlikely now, thank god) what countries would it effect? Sorry I am clueless but now feeling very very scared

Have a look at this expert on Twitter, reassuring

Just joining this thread based on this morning news. I was only mildly concerned the effects on the U.K., obviously very concerned for the people in the Ukraine. But this morning I am petrified, Macrons call with Putin the fire at the nuclear station, my biggest fear now is my children, I’m feeling very much what the hell have I done, oh god this feels awful.

@Logburning the fire has been put out according to CNN.

@iloveeverykindofcat I thought that Putin looked poorly in a couple of photographs recently but then yesterday when I watched a video of him he looked in good health. I don't know what would be worse if he was dying and didn't care or he was perfectly fine and this is how he acts.

Woke up to this alert from the Swedish Governent this morning. Did a better job of waking me up properly than my usual coffee.

*The International Atomic Energy Organization IAEA announces during the night that a fire has broken out at the Zaporizjzja nuclear power plant in southeastern Ukraine. Some increased radiation levels should not have been measured. But even if a serious accident was to happen at the nuclear power plant, the consequences in Sweden are limited by the large distance, writes the Strålsäkerhets Agency.^

@BringBackCoffeeCreams thankful that you & everyone in Sweden would be okay, how scary for you! Hopefully the fire has been put out as reported and no one is at risk

Anyone think putin's puffy face may be just botox?

Thankfully sounds like the fire and reactor are under control.

Could this push more governments to take a harder stance with Putin? A meltdown on that kind of scale would have global implications. Maybe that’s wishful thinking. Morning everyone

@iloveeverykindofcat

What do people think of the rumours that Putin is dying, and that's why he's acting like this - he wanted to go out with one final act that would be remembered as the beginning of the new USSR, or something? It could be propaganda, but he does look sick. His face suggests steroid use...but that could be for all kinds of reasons.

I wish he'd get on a fucking do it then

@ParsleySageRosemary

It's war, sadly it's what men are used for in a population during such times. Marshal law has been applied, conscription is mandatory. Same as for many other wars fought on such a scale if not larger. Is it equal, no. Is it fair, no. Does it need to happen, not in a civilized society when people grasp that invading other nations for scraps of land is absolutely abhorrent.

But children need mother's, they can't be orphaned and sadly during war the value of womens life is put above men. Men's physical capabilities is put above women.

I have to say this is something I’m not happy about.

Women have to look after the children, yes, but those without dependents could be as available as the men. Many are doing things like making Molotov cocktails and so on, and probably lots in the health sectors. Israel has women soldiers, it’s a perfectly possible thing. Maybe they could raise the age limit for conscription for all then.

Women are physically slower and weaker - in ground combat they might be seen as a liability rather than an asset.

Women could be effective as machine operatives/pilots/snipers, but obviously this is not something you can ask someone without extensive training to do.

I think the decision not to conscript women is a practical one, not saying that the lives of women are worth more than men.

@FacebookPhotos

Don’t panic yet, nuclear power stations can be shut down. It takes a while to cool properly, but the people operating the plant will have been aware that this could happen and may have begun the process.

Of course, that might be the plan. They’ve shut down water supplies to a city so shutting down a huge power plant to cut electricity would be par for the course.

Even if you shut it down, it does not decrease the danger significantly. It is not a nuclear explosion that is feared (in the sense like a nuclear bomb), that one is impossible to achieve in a nuclear plant setting. It is a "dirty bomb" scenario, where the nuclear fuel is dispersed by a conventional explosion, like in Chernobyl.

Dh works in the energy sector and says we need to be more reliant on our own sources of fuel. West Burton power station is about to be moth balled, one of the last coal fired power stations. He says in view of what’s happening in Ukraine it needs to be kept going.

Apparently stock markets across Asia have dropped through the floor too following the nuclear plant attack, so I would have thought (hoped) maybe China / Japan will finally take a firmer stance?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60602936

Article on 5 ways the war might end, interesting read.

France, Poland and the US have told their citizens to leave Russia immediately. Anyone else?

@BringBackCoffeeCreams

Woke up to this alert from the Swedish Governent this morning. Did a better job of waking me up properly than my usual coffee.

*The International Atomic Energy Organization IAEA announces during the night that a fire has broken out at the Zaporizjzja nuclear power plant in southeastern Ukraine. Some increased radiation levels should not have been measured. But even if a serious accident was to happen at the nuclear power plant, the consequences in Sweden are limited by the large distance, writes the Strålsäkerhets Agency.^

I bet!

I missed it somewhat til now so I’m very relieved to see it’s looking ok

That's an interesting article CovidCorvid.

I can only hope for the 'Putin ousted' scenario. That would be the preferred choice as far as less loss of life. We can but hope

Five possible outcomes article from the BBC:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60602936

Soft sanctions are a way of communicating with Russians directly. It gets ordinary people asking 'Why?'. Why isnt my football team playing in Europe? Why cant I buy a Billy bookcase from Ikea? Why are there shortages in the shops?

The answers in the state media stop being satisfactory. People start looking elsewhere for answers.

Oligarchs have coexisted with Putin and kept him in power all the while he has kept them in wealth. Capitalism is decadent but fine if kept at arms length in Monaco, London etc. Now the oligarchs' European assets are being seized, their Russian assets are dwindling in value.

Are we going to see a military backed coup against Putin? I'm not sure that the Russian military is capable of that. But then again I have lived long enough to see all manner of things I didnt expect to see.

they russian troops have taken control of the nuclear plant

@BigHuff

France, Poland and the US have told their citizens to leave Russia immediately. Anyone else?

Switzerland also advised there's to leave immediately... What's going on are the West expecting an attack on Belarus or Russia or is it a response to the economic sanctions?

Yes I've learnt to expect the unexpected

A coup against Putin isn't an impossible scenario. It's amazing what happens when money starts being affected

It's wonderful to see how much Poland is doing to help Ukrainians fleeing. They've donated more than any other EU country. All my Polish friends' newsfeeds are overflowing with posts like "Ukrainian piano teacher looking for a job", "room needed for Ukrainian grandma"... I personally know Polish people who have forked thousands out of their own pocket to bring supplies to the border, are taking people to their own home, even though they have their own large families, and are using their cars to shuttle people from the border to their friend's houses where they can stay. Their schools are already teaching classes in Ukrainian and thejr government has been the toughest on sanctions from the beginning. Well done, Poland.

In the meantime, everyone has to beg Germany not to be an absolute jerk.

@MrsLargeEmbodied

they russian troops have taken control of the nuclear plant

Apparently there was a fire but some reports say it's out now. Putin must know if this blows his own citizens are toast?