The Invasion is ongoing...Part 6

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Things are ramping up. No end in site as yet.

Link to thread 5 here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4494173-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-5?pg=1

He genuinely strikes me after that as a physically unwell man who is potentially also genuinely mentally unwell whose plan has gone to shit with the biggest pile of nukes in the world. That combination with nothing to lose is terrifying

[quote mybeautifulnewwashingmachine]@alltheapples I am re attaching the links for the civil war which i posted upthread, because you said you couldn't open and I have been away from the thread for a couple of hours so not sure if you did in the end.

To anyone who didn't see what I wrote first time round, these are about the civil war in the east of Ukraine which has been going on for years between "russian speaking" separatists and Ukrainian forces, I think, I am not an expert, they are quite hardhitting videos in my opinion, the first is a Guardian report from 8 months ago about the state of the front line in eastern Ukraine and second one is a ViCE report from 2014 - I am not guaranteeing these sources and leave you to form your own views

(around 8 months ago) (2014)[/quote] I understand that Wales intends on starting a civil war in Patagonia as there is quite a large population of Welsh speakers there.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

I think Twitter really doesn't help. It's full of op-eds with titles like "Worried about Putin and nuclear war? GOOD - SO YOU SHOULD BE" (and so on) and takes like this gem on that estonian cargo ship that exploded a few hours ago: "Seems there has been an attack on an Estonian owned cargo ship off the port of Odessa. The vessel has sunk. This could be the attack on a NATO member that has the potential to trigger WWIII". Then when you look at the guy that posted it they're some random with maybe 1000 twitter followers at most, not an expert on foreign policy, Putin, Russia, NATO, or basically anything of consequence.

Interviews with actual experts are often very balanced and nuanced and yet the headlines pick out the scariest part.

Current news coverage BBC: Putin claims Ukraine using civilians as human shields, detaining foreigners for same purpose - note the chosen foreigners. Indian and Chinese as neither has denounced Russia, so playing for their domestic audiences, this is obviously false news but will help to turn public opinion in these countries pro-Russia.
Putin playing large on fallen soldiers, promising large pay-outs to their families.
Putin threatening the countries who backed Hitler, watch out Finland.
Man is mad.🤬

I can't believe people think Ukraine should just give up half of its sovereign nation.

Give your head a wobble!

If you think this is reasonable, next time you fall out with your neighbour offer them the downstairs of your house and you live upstairs as "compensation". Even though it was the neighbour who started the whole argument.

Baffled ...

[quote Roussette]Ukraine jets hit the Russian column into Kyiv

www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/ukraine/2022/03/02/ukraine-jets-hit-russian-column-russia-has-used-thermobarics-ukraine-military-says/[/quote]
Thank you for that, Ukraine Air Force obviously has got some capability left after all.

He genuinely strikes me after that as a physically unwell man who is potentially also genuinely mentally unwell whose plan has gone to shit

I don't think his plan has gone to shit though. I mean it has in the sense it hasn't been done as quickly or as well as he wanted, and he definitely wasn't expecting the backlash he's had, but he'll still take Ukraine at the end of the day.

And British universities stopping their exchange programmes with Russia and telling students to come home. MFL students have already had their years abroad disrupted with covid and Brexit and now this. I would have thought that we needed people who understood Russia and spoke the language well.

I'd imagine it's more a safety concern for those students than a sanction.

More on that security council by Putin

Kevin Rothrock @kevinrothrock
“I’m a Dagestani, I’m a Chechen, I’m a Russian. I’m a Jew.” Putin is apparently speaking now, boasting about Russia’s multiethnic roots. He doesn’t say “I’m a Ukrainian,” incidentally.

“Russians and Ukrainians are one people. I’ll never back down on this,” he says.

He announces 7-million-ruble (currently $65k) payments to the families of soldiers killed in Ukraine. 3 million rubles ($27k) to wounded warriors.

And then he does a moment of silence for Russia’s soldiers killed in Ukraine. Remember that, if the camera were to zoom out here, he’d be at least 50 feet away from any other living soul, so terrified of COVID he is.

@Billandben444 Well, just under - 13lbs. I can count on one hand how much I've had to eat.

@DrBlackbird

The site is being over run by people posting Russian propaganda that is demonstrably false

Hard to know if there are bots or bloggers paid to post pro-Russian sentiments on MN or just regular folk with particular ‘anti-west’ whataboutery beefs/agendas for whatever reasons.

Russian paid trolls and bloggers were found to be active on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Stitcher, YouTube, and stand-alone websites. These accounts masqueraded as regular citizens and organizations from a wide variety of political orientations or from no obvious political orientation at all, but the central aim was to create a new front in a long-term competitive strategy designed to undermine US institutions.

Not a long shot to say that we’ve seen some of that here given that it’s a well established political strategy. It is interesting to think how insidious and effective this strategy is given that a) we’re suspecting either some bots or paid bloggers here and b) how these insidious comments might sway some posters?

I like to hear what the perception us from the other side. Always! I find it very weird and troubling that people would try to suppress it and I strongly believe that sort of thinking is what drives the most selfish of human behaviour and all if the problems we’re seeing now. And no, I’m not a Russian bot.

Oi! We won't, we will just have some cheese and ham on toast sing a song, and get over it. Maybe it could be settled by a rugby game, winner gets the land , seems fair. 😂

Our war chant would just be "ogi ogi ogi, oy, oy, oy" 😂

Joking by the way, and I knew you were to 😊

He has gone completely mad, deluded and needs medical help.

[quote elephantmarchingin]@Ijsbear well according to what has been released on BBC news it's that they remain neutral and don't join NATO [/quote]
You mean like they've been all along? Nato, to put it very bluntly, didn't want the Ukraine because it was such a boiling hot potato.

Can you show the recent link where it says that Russia agrees to the Ukraine staying neutral and not joining Nato, and they will ceasefire and withdraw?

And would you believe it? given how much Putin actively enjoys lying?

Quote fail on phone, that was in response to @Jgw1

"But NATO" is 2022 version of "But her emails"

I would treat the posts about nuclear war in the same way as the early posts about how covid was going to lead to rioti9ng ane a total breakdown in law and order,
They are either bots, pro Russian bloggers, or very anxious people. If they are anxious I feel sorry for them, but their fears are not realistic.

In terms of kids, I grew up in the UK when we were being told by the government there might be a nuclear war. We all survived.

@TheSillyMastiff

Oi! We won't, we will just have some cheese and ham on toast sing a song, and get over it. Maybe it could be settled by a rugby game, winner gets the land , seems fair. 😂

Our war chant would just be "ogi ogi ogi, oy, oy, oy" 😂

Joking by the way, and I knew you were to 😊

I've seen what some English towns in the Marches are like on match days if there is a Welsh team playing them. I'd be scared if I lived in Patagonia!

Presumably the poster who said that because many Ukrainians are also Russian speakers Ukraine should be part of Russia was also joking?

I’m usually on more optimistic end, in life and re Covid but I was feeling more anxious a couple of days ago. I feel a bit better today but it did feel hairy and unpredictable

@YouSayYesISayNo

Bluebellsunderthetrees doesn't seem to like the Ukranians much, and is convinced they've done a lot of Very Bad Things; this apparently is justification for Putin to invade, kill a load of civilians and destroy the infrastructure.

I wonder how much better Bluebellsunderthetrees thinks life will be for ordinary people in a Ukraine governed by Russia.

You think I don't like Ukranians? I'm beginning to think Ukranians don't like Ukrainians. This is not me justifying Putin invading, this is me wondering if I want to support a Ukraine Govt who does this. You would prefer to target me. What do you think of this?

According to the UN High Commissioner, when compared to the previous period, there was a 51% increase in Donbass casualties between February 1 and July 31 2021, accounting for 62 killed and wounded civilians. 81% of civilians died from Ukrainian shelling and more than 80% of hits during the reporting period led to destruction. Among the victims were young children. The number of ceasefire violations from February 1 to July 31 increased by 369%. With these harrowing figures, there has been at least 3,390 confirmed civilian deaths since April 14, 2014.

With Ukrainian General Oleksandr Pavlyuk admitting that the military intentionally shelled civilian infrastructure in Donbass, thus violating Minsk agreements, there is good reason to believe that the UN casualty figure of about 7,000 is grossly underestimated as not all civilian casualties are reported. For example, in the 2014-2015 winter season, many lonely old people died in the remote settlements of Donbass. There were also cases of starvation and suicide in large cities.

Part of the reason for many unaccounted deaths is because Ukraine stopped paying pensions, froze bank cards and imposed a humanitarian blockade against Donbass. UN estimates do not highlight these civilian losses due to the inability of being able to account for a huge region that faces constant population displacement. There is also the concealment of statistics by military and civilian authorities on both sides of the front. Therefore, there are many deaths that remain unaccounted for.

@RedToothBrush

"But NATO" is 2022 version of "But her emails"

We haven't had a but Jeremy Corbyn recently so I am wondering if we could pointlessly go round in a circle about what he thinks of NATO?

@alltheapples

I would treat the posts about nuclear war in the same way as the early posts about how covid was going to lead to rioti9ng ane a total breakdown in law and order, They are either bots, pro Russian bloggers, or very anxious people. If they are anxious I feel sorry for them, but their fears are not realistic.

In terms of kids, I grew up in the UK when we were being told by the government there might be a nuclear war. We all survived.

Yes, all those doomsday Covid posts from experts. Gotta sell those newspapers!

Having said that I think about people in Ukraine and how extreme it is right now for them and what is happening and that’s so so awful