The Invasion is ongoing...Part 6

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Things are ramping up. No end in site as yet.

Link to thread 5 here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4494173-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-5?pg=1

@CaveMum

I imagine the issue around property is that so many have been bought by shell companies so it can take quite a bit of unpicking to figure out who the actual owner is.

I guess in a similar way many of the yachts/planes are registered in countries other than Russia which means a ban on "Russian registered" boats/planes becomes pointless.

A quick and easy hit, though obviously one that would also hit innocent people (as in the children of oligarchs), would be to revoke student Visas. I can't imagine there are many Russian students in this country who come from poor backgrounds simply because of the cost of studying here (either private school or university). Revoking the fast track citizenship programme would also be a step in the right direction.

As far as I remember the fast track citisenship thing has been revoked, not long before the invasion. Yes, here's a link. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0bpr3f0

Details on the yacht seizures here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60604206

Thanks @Andouillette I'd missed that. Perhaps then they need to revoke all citizenships that have been issued to date and make them all reapply through the same channels as everyone else?

@CaveMum
We gave citizenship to many Putin supporting Oligarchs, so they an their children aren't going to be looked at but they very much should be.

I don't see any of these people as innocents, inc their children, they are guilty by association, its what happens in war and that is basically where we are at with Russia.

i lived through the Cold war of the 70s and 80s and this is by far worse only then we were prepared to stand up to the Russians, which is what kept the peace.

@CaveMum

Thanks *@Andouillette* I'd missed that. Perhaps then they need to revoke all citizenships that have been issued to date and make them all reapply through the same channels as everyone else?

But they are rich, so they must be better and more deserving than the poor.

Far too much whataboutery on this thread.

And yes we should be standing up to the Russians. If we and others don't, this will escalate.

Sorry if this has already been posted

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-60589154.amp

I imagine the issue around property is that so many have been bought by shell companies so it can take quite a bit of unpicking to figure out who the actual owner is.

That does seem to be a significant part of the problem www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60549927

Such a context surely makes illegal actions such as Russia's more likely.

But that's the problem Yeah you keep going on about all the terrible things the West has done and how this context facilitates Russian aggression

When the reality is that Russia is part of that context. Since 1991 it has engaged in all sorts of interventions and atrocities. It is also responsible for the degradation of international law and norms.

Russia has violated the sovereignty of its former republics by supporting separatist regions going back to 1991. It invaded Georgia in 2008.

Within its own territory it waged two wars in Chechnya that collectively killed at least 150,000 people. This included levelling cities to the ground, the use of thermobaric weapons, and constant atrocities against the population.

Russia propped up the Assad regime for years before officially intervening in Syria, during which time it has bombed cities and hospitals and schools indiscriminately.

Right now Russian mercenaries in the Central African Republic are being accused of atrocities.

So again, let's look at what all the leading powers have done since 1991 to erode international law. Rather than acting as if it's just the West making it easier for Russia to violate it.

I imagine the issue around property is that so many have been bought by shell companies so it can take quite a bit of unpicking to figure out who the actual owner is.

Put a padlock on the front door and tell anyone who wants access they need to prove ownership?

I'm mostly joking. But it is ridiculous that the people who own land / building in this country cannot be easily identified by the government. Why bother having a land registry at all?

[quote PronounssheRa]I imagine the issue around property is that so many have been bought by shell companies so it can take quite a bit of unpicking to figure out who the actual owner is.

That does seem to be a significant part of the problem www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60549927[/quote]
Private Eye have been calling for years (if not decades) for the Land Registry to be reformed and opened up. Only to do so would reveal the staggeringly large amount of land that isn't registered. And therefore manages to slip through the tax net. Again. And again.

The whole farce around chancel repairs showed how much land wasn't registered.

Put a padlock on the front door and tell anyone who wants access they need to prove ownership?

Unless it's a solution that is impossibly complex and can be hived out to Capitos or whoever, it's unlikely to be picked up.

(Although in IT we sometimes do the equivalent of switching off a server and seeing who squeals ....)

I imagine the issue around property is that so many have been bought by shell companies so it can take quite a bit of unpicking to figure out who the actual owner is

If we were really serious, we'd act, fuckin hell, can't touch an Oligarchs mansion/boat plane but we can lock us all in our houses within 72 hours.
Bojo has a majority, Labour would support, so emg law could be passed, reviewed every 30 days etc.

@CaveMum

Thanks *@Andouillette* I'd missed that. Perhaps then they need to revoke all citizenships that have been issued to date and make them all reapply through the same channels as everyone else?

My Russian neighbour in that case would have to leave with her half English baby.

Bojo has a majority, Labour would support, so emg law could be passed, reviewed every 30 days etc.

So the fact it hasn't happened means BoJo doesn't want it to. QED as he would himself say. Although it's more res ipsos loquitor, really.

@FacebookPhotos

I imagine the issue around property is that so many have been bought by shell companies so it can take quite a bit of unpicking to figure out who the actual owner is.

Put a padlock on the front door and tell anyone who wants access they need to prove ownership?

I'm mostly joking. But it is ridiculous that the people who own land / building in this country cannot be easily identified by the government. Why bother having a land registry at all?

House version of car clamp ;

I suppose with a yacht the staff are there with keys so they can just say hey hand it over

So Nadine Dorries has got all emotional about BBC journalism

🤮

@oakleaffy I’m not referring to all Russians, I mean those who were granted citizenship on the basis of the fast track system based on their financial investment in the UK. According to the Guardian there are 700 such Russian millionaires.

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/30/calls-for-uk-to-suspend-golden-visas-after-fast-tracking-of-russian-millionaires

The government could do this if there was a political will to do so. They don't want to, so may claim it is impossible.
There is a reason Russian oligarchs have been donating money to the Conservative party for years.

@DrBlackbird

So Nadine Dorries has got all emotional about BBC journalism

🤮

Nadine is a laughable hypocrite.

[quote CaveMum]@oakleaffy I’m not referring to all Russians, I mean those who were granted citizenship on the basis of the fast track system based on their financial investment in the UK. According to the Guardian there are 700 such Russian millionaires.

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/30/calls-for-uk-to-suspend-golden-visas-after-fast-tracking-of-russian-millionaires[/quote]
Oh that’s quite different.
My neighbour had to pay masses to study here, and is now a taxpayer.

@alltheapples

The government could do this if there was a political will to do so. They don't want to, so may claim it is impossible. There is a reason Russian oligarchs have been donating money to the Conservative party for years.

Except they aren't saying it's impossible. New laws and a new branch of enforcement agents are coming in. Keir Starmer has said Labour will support it.

I'd say oust students who are children of the oligarchs or children of the Kremlinati. But it would be unfair to punish ordinary Russians by booting them out. Plus it wouldn't do anything to aid the situation.

The government could do this if there was a political will to do so. They don't want to, so may claim it is impossible.

DGR has a little maxim. It's called "if it really mattered" and it has a sibling "look at what they do". I apply them to everything. Once you do, you see the world for what it is. Currently, it demonstrates that climate change is a fiction, and UK government support for Ukraine is lukewarm at best.

We need truly neutral international bodies, and rigid arms control. The point is that we have to change the entire structure of the international system.

yeah you seem v informed about US atrocities and incursions against other countries. Less so on other countries atrocities on their own citizens as well as towards other countries.

Just who do you think will comprise this truly neutral international body? Where will it’s members be drawn from? Who monitors and enforces the rigid arms control?? There is no way to get around national interests. And every single country in the world has national interests. Some are just better than others at forcing those interests on other countries.

The US has been called the world’s policeman. And I am not being an American apologist. God forbid. But if I had to choose between the US, Russia or China, our only three options at this point in time, to become the new world’s policeman I know which country I’d choose.

What about you?