The Invasion is ongoing...Part 6

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Things are ramping up. No end in site as yet.

Link to thread 5 here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4494173-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-5?pg=1

@DGRossetti

Do people need to go to bed with young children to prove their abstinence as well?

Depends how much like Gandhi you want to be. My point was the bravery of Indians queuing up to be smashed in the face by British soldiers. One after another after another ...

Presumably the difference here is that the Russian troops are backing off (allegedly of course, propaganda, unverified videos etc) rather than fighting

@alloakleaffy

www.iaea.org/newscenter/pressreleases/update-7-iaea-director-general-statement-on-situation-in-ukraine

The usual workers are still maintaining the reactors, even where they've been taken over by the Russians, so I'm hopeful that things should remain stable in them so long as there's not more military action near the plants.

@dreamingbohemian

Ukraine armed forces saying they expect 16,000 foreign volunteers to arrive soon (!!) in the new international legion.

They said they only accepted people with previous military experience so presumably they won't be totally useless.

When will the telephone sanitisers arrive ?

Steven Swinford
@Steven_Swinford
Exclusive:
Britain will not be able to sanction Roman Abramovich and other oligarchs for weeks of months - if at all
Foreign Office and National Crime Agency have been unable to prove 'reasonable grounds' for designating oligarchs

'leading the way'

So Nadine Dorries has got all emotional about BBC journalism. Then mentioned ITV.

I may need some time to avoid ranting a lot.

This is an interesting little Twitter thread about Transnistria: twitter.com/SlavaMalamud/status/1430939451069509639

[quote HelpMeHiveMind]@alltheapples if we were attacked, WOULD NATO countries automatically defend? Or would they step back again for fear of what would happen to their own countries? We are an isolated island, not even part of the EU now. Might it be easier to just sacrifice us for the greater good in the same way as is being done with Ukraine? [/quote]
We are a founding member of NATO and a nuclear power. On top of that, our island geography makes it more difficult to invade and we are enmeshed with the world's systems, especially flight and banking. I can't think of anyone who would view the prospect with joy (a lot of aggro for little gain) and NATO would be forced to act.

I've watched sky news continuously since this has started I wake up in the night to make sure zelenskys still alive x and the kids getting toys at the station has finally broke me 😭please god stop this now

@nottoday3000

I've watched sky news continuously since this has started I wake up in the night to make sure zelenskys still alive x and the kids getting toys at the station has finally broke me 😭please god stop this now

I wake up hoping to read that Putin has passed away in the night. Natural causes or out a window. Either works.

I am a pacifist solicitor but increasingly I am all for NATO involvement, why are we so scared of WW3 when it is already happening? He won’t stop at Ukraine, he is backed into a corner, domestically and internationally. This ‘Russia as victim’ propaganda is starting a whole global narrative that doesn’t end at the Russian flag hoisted in Kyiv

Your not wrong, the whole western narrative is that he will use nuclear weapons but if we genuinely think he will use them, why wouldn't he use them anyway? drop a nuclear weapon on Kyiv? go into Finland Sweden Latvia Poland? Try n stop me and i will go Nuclear.... if we take this attitude, then he can do as he likes, where he likes and we cannot stop him.

As the lady on Newsnight pointed out, he is a long way from the nuclear button and those beneath him don't want to see themselves, their families and all of Russia destroyed.

We are, by proxy, already killing and destroying Russian soldiers and equipment, ukraine is fighting back using NATO issue weapons, which we are pouring into the region... yet here we still all are, despite his earlier threats.

@StrychnineInTheSandwiches

Why hasn’t BoJo ordered the seizure of Oligarch’s homes in London?

Quite!

Although I was just reading that Ben Elliott, co-chair of the Conservative Party (as well as nephew of Camilla soon to be queenie), owns a luxury 24-hr concierge business called the Quintessentially Group, that is still operational in Russia.

Says it all as to where the Tories' true motivations lie.

No, but Keir had a beer. And what about Michael Foot?

H&M and Ikea are Swedish so the PR would be awful if they kept trading in Russia.
There is now huge pressure on all brands to be seen to do the “right” thing for PR reasons and get out of Russia. Luxury brands who are most focussed on brand value will follow quickly.

I fully expect photos quite soon of our politicians in oligarchs mansions in London with Ukrainian refugees. However, the cynic in me says there will have been some mutual agreement with the applicable oligarchs for said photo shoots.

I also fully expect increased gatherings of rich Russians in Dubai etc. They will all have ample gold, crypto etc to fund their life styles. Multiple trusts for family members etc. If you are that rich you always plan ahead and have a back up for these types of situations.
The persons who will get nailed are the poor in Russia, Ukraine and now increasingly also the bordering countries taking in the refugees. Unfortunately with refugee waves come criminals and bombs/flights overhead. I have friends with children in Poland on the borders, they are all very scared and their daily lives have changed dramatically. Police on the streets/flights overhead, chaos. Entirely anecdotal, but one mentioned Chechen looking fighters.
Thanks everyone for clarifying that Chat remains.

Joel Gunter @joelmgunter

New story on Mariupol

• entire city without power, water
• Ukrainian forces still in control inside perimeter but 'we are being completely cut off'
• communication networks down
• continuous shelling again since 6am
• residents trapped. 'We are terrified'

Our government are too intertwined with Russia to do anything meaningful. I have been a bit taken aback over the last few years at how Britain has totally ignored the Russian threat and been happy to accept their money in return for increasing influence.

@Alexandra2001

I am a pacifist solicitor but increasingly I am all for NATO involvement, why are we so scared of WW3 when it is already happening? He won’t stop at Ukraine, he is backed into a corner, domestically and internationally. This ‘Russia as victim’ propaganda is starting a whole global narrative that doesn’t end at the Russian flag hoisted in Kyiv

Your not wrong, the whole western narrative is that he will use nuclear weapons but if we genuinely think he will use them, why wouldn't he use them anyway? drop a nuclear weapon on Kyiv? go into Finland Sweden Latvia Poland? Try n stop me and i will go Nuclear.... if we take this attitude, then he can do as he likes, where he likes and we cannot stop him.

As the lady on Newsnight pointed out, he is a long way from the nuclear button and those beneath him don't want to see themselves, their families and all of Russia destroyed.

We are, by proxy, already killing and destroying Russian soldiers and equipment, ukraine is fighting back using NATO issue weapons, which we are pouring into the region... yet here we still all are, despite his earlier threats.

I think Putin is prepared to use them under certain conditions as a last resort. But I don't think he wants to use them as his preferred option. And he will certainly only do it if he thinks he can gain an advantage from doing so or the game is completely up.

As it stands he thinks he can survive this as president and he thinks he can still win the war and there's no real clear strategic advantage to be gained from a gambled nuke. Instead of making the west back off, its unified it.

Putin has been planning this for decades, so he's not likely to launch a nuke on a whim unless firmly into an end game scenario. There is more power from threatening to use at this stage.

I don't think that rules him out using one, but yes, he's having a reality check.

I stress that I don't think he is ultimately a madman. Gambler yes. Madman no.

As the lady on Newsnight pointed out, he is a long way from the nuclear button and those beneath him don't want to see themselves, their families and all of Russia destroyed.

I saw this – it was the most reassuring thing I'd seen on that. I think it was Catherine Belton, who wrote Putin's People.

@StrychnineInTheSandwiches I was talking to someone yesterday I said we need you back out there (ex army) he words were don't worry it will be an inside job...wish they'd hurry up then....

@RedToothBrush

So Nadine Dorries has got all emotional about BBC journalism. Then mentioned ITV.

I may need some time to avoid ranting a lot.

I hear you pp. There’s no eye roll emoji big enough to use at this point.

@dreamingbohemian

Btw Moldova and Georgia show why it's way too simplistic to believe this narrative that the West started all these terrible interventions and Russia is just following suit.

Way back in the early 1990s Russia was supporting separatists in Moldova and Georgia, they still support them to this day and are the reason both countries have to accept these criminalised de facto states within their territories.

Russia controls 15% of Georgian territory and is slowly expanding it every year through illegal land seizures. In 2008 it actually invaded Georgia proper, another unlawful aggression.

Russian support for separatists in Eastern Ukraine after 2014 followed this exact playbook, provide support to separatists and create a 'frozen conflict' that prevents the country from further integration with the West.

The precedent is not Iraq or Libya, these were entirely different kinds of conflicts. In Ukraine Russia is just doing what it has done in other former republics for a long time.

I've yet to see anyone propagate the narrative that Russia's actions are entirely due to US destabilisation/invasions of countries in the Middle East or Central & South America.

I think the argument is that either international law and norms of international relations exist or they don't. They can only exist if there is a state of equality before that law.

Instead what we have are institutions which aren't truly neutral; as long as some countries can with impunity: Invade a sovereign nation and then preside over the execution of its president (Iraq), or a revolution can be fomented, then NATO can deploy forces on a "peace keeping" mission which degrades the country's military response against an insurgency, culminating in its leader being tortured and executed on camera and Hillary Clinton laughing in response, "We came, we saw, he died" (Libya) then we're actually in a state of anarchy. General Wesley Clark claims that he was told of a US plan to launch attacks on six countries back in 2001. We've yet to, and never will, see any punitive action against the architects of the disastrous wars in the Middle East which created millions of refugees and provided fertile ground for the growth of terrorist groups.

Such a context surely makes illegal actions such as Russia's more likely. We need truly neutral international bodies, and rigid arms control.

The point is that we have to change the entire structure of the international system.

the most obvious reason, they can move em around/sell, you can't a house quite as easily, so there is more time to act on these.

You can sell a property not sure about the moving around part being key. Plus super jets are the same. If you look at the assets it’s staggering. Maybe yachts are just easier to access. If it is a seize rather than agreement

Wonder if they need to be in your water or you can seize yachts elsewhere if they belong to a resident. Most will be moored elsewhere I suspect

@RedToothBrush

So Nadine Dorries has got all emotional about BBC journalism. Then mentioned ITV.

I may need some time to avoid ranting a lot.

Was she wearing her blue and yellow outfit?

The stench of hypocrisy coming from the Tories right now is nauseating.

Wonder if they need to be in your water or you can seize yachts elsewhere if they belong to a resident. Most will be moored elsewhere I suspect

Also depends where they are registered. Liberia used to be popular as it imposed no requirements.

I imagine the issue around property is that so many have been bought by shell companies so it can take quite a bit of unpicking to figure out who the actual owner is.

I guess in a similar way many of the yachts/planes are registered in countries other than Russia which means a ban on "Russian registered" boats/planes becomes pointless.

A quick and easy hit, though obviously one that would also hit innocent people (as in the children of oligarchs), would be to revoke student Visas. I can't imagine there are many Russian students in this country who come from poor backgrounds simply because of the cost of studying here (either private school or university). Revoking the fast track citizenship programme would also be a step in the right direction.

I imagine the issue around property is that so many have been bought by shell companies so it can take quite a bit of unpicking to figure out who the actual owner is.

At which point we remember a Tory peer just two weeks ago being interviewed on R4 and explaining that the UK had a scheme for a property register that would have solved all that, but government ministers all queued up and begged/insisted/cajoled him into withdrawing it from the Lords amendments.

His faux confusion at why fuck all had happened since was more damning than if he'd called the Johnson regime a bunch of crooks directly.

At this distance, the only benefit of Brexit has been to Russian oligarchs evading EU sanctions. Put that on the side of a fucking bus.