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The Invasion is ongoing...Part 5

999 replies

Damnloginpopup · 01/03/2022 15:57

Unbelievable to think that a few days ago the world was starting to look more positive..ye we find ourselves on a fifth thread discussing the horrors of the war in Europe. An unbelievable change has happened to the world we live in.

Some incredible firmed posts have been written, informing, discussing, and occasionally derailing. Let's hope the news is more positive by the end of this one.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
CPL593H · 01/03/2022 18:10

I see the Mail picked up the "massive bunker in the Altai mountains" story. Just amazed they didn't mention the price, although it probably hasn't been on Rightmove recently (sorry)

@Logburning you've had some excellent and realistic replies here. Honestly, the bunker/anyone going there means nothing in terms of potential danger for us. Flowers

MumbleCrumbs · 01/03/2022 18:10

I honestly think he'll go for Moldova next. I don't know what the answer is but it surely cannot be "let him take whatever he wants as long as it's not a nato country so we don't get nuked". This will end up in a wider conflict eventually.

ClaudineClare · 01/03/2022 18:11

It didn't, any disinformation about the vaccines was swiftly jumped on by posters. Genuine concern eg if someone was pregnant, was not. Do not conflate concern (or not agreeing with your viewpoint) and disinformation

My concern is not about those who may not agree with my viewpoint! Look at my contributions on these threads, I am open minded and trying to learn as much as I can. My concern is about spreading disinformation from non- reputable sources that is designed to scare people. MN was absolutely awash with it at times in terms of the vaccines and Covid.

MrsPsmalls · 01/03/2022 18:12

and whilst I want to do what we can to help Ukraine I'm terrified we will start a nuclear war.
It won't be us starting a nuclear war.

toastfiend · 01/03/2022 18:13

@MumbleCrumbs

I honestly think he'll go for Moldova next. I don't know what the answer is but it surely cannot be "let him take whatever he wants as long as it's not a nato country so we don't get nuked". This will end up in a wider conflict eventually.
Ukraine hasn't been a resounding success for him. He may ultimately succeed but they've suffered heavy losses, sanctions, a much fiercer resistance than they obviously ever expected and appalling optics on the world stage. How much of that he cares about none of us can really know, but one would hope that it won't necessarily embolden him to continue - in the immediacy anyway.
Natsku · 01/03/2022 18:14

[quote NotJustACigar]A nuclear attack is unlikely however accidental damage to a Ukrainian nuclear reactor or waste storage site during bombing is credible. The IAEA is putting out press releases on a daily basis at the moment that make for interesting reading www.iaea.org/news[/quote]
This is what concerns me more than the risk of nuclear attack which is, as you say, unlikely.
I'm probably going to check the pharmacy this week to see if they have got their iodine pills back in stock.

MarshaBradyo · 01/03/2022 18:18

[quote Yeahthat]@ClaudineClare

Ukraine is also part of an information and propaganda war as much as Russia. They want us to escalate the situation by imposing a no fly zone and therefore risk being drawn into war with Russia.

It's not rational for us to do so.

As much as we all condemn Putin's actions and want to support Ukraine, I don't think that anyone is truly willing to risk nuclear war in order to do so. Frankly, I'd be terrified if this option was on the table. We must focus on deescalation.[/quote]
Yes I agree with this. I’m glad thinking us united on this

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 01/03/2022 18:18

@ClaudineClare

Hlglu56 what is the documentary called, please? Sounds as though it is worth a watch.
Is it Rise of the Nazis?

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m00084td/rise-of-the-nazis

CaveMum · 01/03/2022 18:19

I’m reposting this which I shared on the last thread. It was written by a MNer on another thread who said they are a Russian political analyst (obv can’t verify these things but I’ll take it at face value):

Despite the very vague threatening statements made by the Russians over the last few days, the US government was reporting a few hours ago that no change to Russian nuclear force posture had been detected. There's no evidence - so far - that this was more than a desperate attempt to retrieve some credibility in the face of Russia's weakness in Ukraine and inability to stop Western states coordinating diplomatic and economic responses.

Even if Putin is mentally unstable - and there's no consensus on that - the people around him, including the senior military leadership, aren't.

The thing to remember is that there is no such thing as a big red button that Putin can hit to fire of the nukes. There will be procedures to follow and a chain of command. Now no one is saying that is 100% fail safe but, in general, people aren’t stupid and you’d be fairly confident that someone sling the chain would stop it from actually happening.

Look up the case of Stanislav Petrov who saved the world from nuclear annihilation in 1983.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

Bonheurdupasse · 01/03/2022 18:19

@MumbleCrumbs

I honestly think he'll go for Moldova next. I don't know what the answer is but it surely cannot be "let him take whatever he wants as long as it's not a nato country so we don't get nuked". This will end up in a wider conflict eventually.
That's looking very likely.
ClaudineClare · 01/03/2022 18:20

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus thanks, but it was on Channel 4.

Yeahthat · 01/03/2022 18:20

@Alexandra2001

People say a non-NATO stance is up to Ukraine. I think it's up to NATO - Ukraine is free to request to join; it should have been ruled-out on the basis that it would destabilise Europe.

I actually believe the opposite: Prof Caitlin Talmadge has spoken about the Stability-Instability Paradox:

"The notion that mutual vulnerability ("MAD") at the strategic nuclear level can actually make conflict more likely at lower rungs of the escalation ladder. Deterrence theorists associated with the Nuclear Revolution often dismiss this idea, arguing that nuclear stalemate means both sides will avoid crises and conflicts out of the fear they could escalate. The result should be peace, stability, and less military competition. Yet Putin’s behavior suggests that revisionist actors are not so inhibited and may instead use their strategic nuclear forces as a shield behind which they can pursue conventional aggression, knowing their nuclear threats may deter outside intervention."

I think that these crippling sanctions, supplying arms, allowing jets to take off from NATO countries have proven that NATO itself is in fact willing to go far. Russia's forces are overstretched already, and if the latest American reports are to be believed, then some units have sabotaged vehicles rather than fight; there's also a report that marines mutinied on a ship rather than deploy.

Analysts who had previously war-gamed a Russia-NATO conflict in the baltics came to the conclusion that Russia could mobilise long before NATO, but that ultimately the conflict would be unwinnable for them.

The performance of his military here has done nothing to bolster their standing. Even if/when Ukraine does fall, they're likely to face a long insurgency which will bog them down for years; their economy is tanking; they're facing a demographic crisis with low birth rates (same as the west in that regard).

Surely they can't believe that having failed to quickly subdue Ukraine, they could sustain a war on multiple fronts against NATO.

ClaudineClare · 01/03/2022 18:23

I think I have found it, if anyone else is interested.
www.channel4.com/programmes/putin-a-russian-spy-story?cntsrc=social_share_android_putin_a_russian_spy_story

Fuckedoffisanunderstatement · 01/03/2022 18:23

@BeyondPurpleTulips

Not saying it is the definite reason, but joining the EU gives something else to add to peace talks - eg: "we agree to cancel our membership request if you leave"
Agree, Putin needs a way out of this without losing face too
CallyfromBlakes7 · 01/03/2022 18:23

MN was absolutely awash with it at times in terms of the vaccines and Covid

well I didn't think it was, but we'll agree to differ on that one as you may have read different threads to me.

namechanged00 · 01/03/2022 18:24

Sergei Skripal?! I’m aware that my posts are scare mongering that’s not my intention I have been reading many threads and really trying to keep a level head with things that have been posted but this is in my locality and with my connection living on a military base I’m now beginning to feel the panic, I don’t want a 20 min warning to agonise that my children are not with me being at school/work so I’m keeping it real and if I can offer a bedroom for a family fleeing this atrocity I would in a heartbeat. I will be contacting organisations to implement this tomorrow

52andblue · 01/03/2022 18:26

PMK (or was it Cod, Rug, Earl? :)

WeQuestionEverything · 01/03/2022 18:27

Questions:

I wonder what would happen if several nations, whether a member of NATO or not, assembled some strike aircraft and took out the 40 mile column of armour that is poised to advance on Kyiv?

If one assumes that strategically Russia would not launch nuclear weapons due to mutually assured destruction, then what happens next?

I will add a rider. The first strike is overwhelming on the foremost 33% of the column only.

parafirstjoint · 01/03/2022 18:27

Apologies for asking as I assume this will possibly have been asked earlier today.

The 40 mile convoy of Russians, why aren’t drones taking the lot of them out or at least damaging as much ground in front of them to make it impossible to reach Kyiv?

WeQuestionEverything · 01/03/2022 18:29

Cross post @parafirstjoint

(It is a tactical point that has potentially enormous strategic outcomes.)

Natsku · 01/03/2022 18:30

Look up the case of Stanislav Petrov who saved the world from nuclear annihilation in 1983.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

Didn't know about this, interesting and terrifying at the same time. Hope there's Petrov's working on both sides!

Newrunner29 · 01/03/2022 18:34

@parafirstjoint

Apologies for asking as I assume this will possibly have been asked earlier today.

The 40 mile convoy of Russians, why aren’t drones taking the lot of them out or at least damaging as much ground in front of them to make it impossible to reach Kyiv?

I've read a few tweets that say it was reported wrong it's 4 miles long and 40 miles away
Cam77 · 01/03/2022 18:34

The simplest solution is surely for Ukraine to sign documents declaring itself tactically neutral - as Switzerland has always been. Not part of the EU (though perhaps it could be part of the single and market) and certainly not part of NATO. Contrary to all the madman rhetoric, this is actually what Russia has wanted since the 2014 uprising/coup and going back to the 90s. Is this "fair" to Ukraine? Possibly not, but geopolitics isn't always about fair - it's about survival and compromised coexistence. Ask the Catalans/Taiwan/Northern Ireland/Cuba or a 100 other examples.

TokyoSushi · 01/03/2022 18:35

But isn't it odd that there's 40 miles of military equipment and personnel just sitting there, for what? Why do they feel so secure that nothing will happen to them? Why isn't anything happening to them? It's like they're hiding in plain sight. This convoy has been confusing/bothering me all day.

I assume if somebody else went in with a drone or whatever and wrecked the whole lot, then they'd just retaliate at whoever did it and they'd be fckd? It's like a massive, odd standoff.

I don't claim to know anything at all about war but this seems to be a very strange way of doing things.

I am so full of admiration for the Ukrainian people, if I'm stressed and confused about it, I can even begin to imagine for they feel.

OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet · 01/03/2022 18:35

If you find out how to accommodate anyone from Ukraine @namechanged00, could you please post the details here? I for one would be very happy to help if I can.

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