The Invasion is ongoing...Part 5

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Unbelievable to think that a few days ago the world was starting to look more positive..ye we find ourselves on a fifth thread discussing the horrors of the war in Europe. An unbelievable change has happened to the world we live in.

Some incredible firmed posts have been written, informing, discussing, and occasionally derailing. Let's hope the news is more positive by the end of this one.

Moreover, the US would never wage a war on Russia. Ever. Why would it?! For what possible gain?

In the days of the USSR, because of its pathological hatred of Communism. Hence the arms race with the intention of bankrupting the USSR and US glee when it succeeded. Remember Fukuyama's book the End of History -Western/American ways had won. Rich Russian turning into oligarchs wasn't so far away from American ideals. The trouble was, they didn't see what effect a power vacuum opening up would eventually give rise to.

In the days of the USSR, because of its pathological hatred of Communism.

It was Khrushchev who said "we will bury you", so perhaps not pathological. And yet the US never actually waged war on Russia.

@Speciali

How strange. My two young dcs haven’t really talked about the war with anyone at school. Maybe don’t watch the news with them in the room.

@Dreamingbohemian

The basis of what I'm saying is fact. It's a fact that NATO is lead by and composed of nations which have been the principle drivers of wars of aggression in the last two decades and have fought wars for the purpose of regime change.

You can entirely condemn the invasion of Ukraine and regard it as abhorrent, wish for multilateral disarmament, while believing that there are actions that would have made it less likely.

The approach of believing that we don't pose any threat to other nations - contrary to events - therefore expanding our military alliances to their borders should cause no increase in hostilities won't work.

There have been wars all over the news before. There will be again. Talk to children about it and explain it is happening a long way away. You can explain people are worried here because it will make petrol and food more expensive and that British soldiers may be sent there (I know it is far more complex, but this is the level of understanding a small child can take in).
That way you are explaining why people are worried but make it clear the soldiers fighting are fighting a long way away from where we live.

Parents have had to talk to their kids about covid. This is an easier thing to talk about as for most UK kids, the war will have no obvious impact on their daily life.

Good night everybody, thanks for your helpful posts and explanations today, it seems that these threads won't be be slowing down any time soon.

Let's hope that tonight isn't too terrible, the morning will come. 🇺🇦

.

Pmk for sleep time...
See you all in the morning

@Tigersonvaseline

Re Belarus Man!!

It's beyond farce and look's staged !! Are they trying too warn us!!
Look Moldova is next look!!

That was my exact thoughts too - I read the article earlier in the day with a photo and thought WTAF and cast it aside as a piece of nonsense. But then it popped up again this evening on sky news!

Comedy map and large balding man with pointy stick!! It reminded me of a Two Ronnies sketch or an episode of Dads Army.

I've been watching Russian TV today (Rossiya24) and feel quite sick.

That speech by Dr Alice Weidel (sp?), shown on repeat

The economics commentators smugly and confidently repeating that the sanctions are not sustainable for the West; no word on their effect on Russia

The narrative shifting from
"nothing to see here" (a couple of days ago)
to:
long items showing how happy life is in Eastern Ukraine now, each person interviewed thanking Russia several times (yesterday),
to (today):
"What you see in Ukraine is the result of the West's actions"
"The EU is acting like an enemy"
"Ukrainian troops hide behind women and children"

Experts categorically stating that the missile in Kharkiv was a Ukrainian provocation.

Any information from government departments is delivered by personnel reading from autocue, looking terrified.

That speech by Lavrov

I wonder if the news presenters believe the rubbish they are spouting. So depressing

@Yeahthat
Succinctly put.

@BeyondPurpleTulips

"His extreme measures to avoid the virus would make sense if he had an underlying condition."

Make sense?

Make more sense maybe, but that alone doesn't explain the silly long table.

I don't have any tables that long!

(signed a CEV person, on steroids and heavy duty immune suppressants - four jabs. Admittedly I'm not 69, but my horse riding days are much longer ago than Vlad's)

Agreed, COVID isolation doesn't seem to explain the long tables. Putin met with Imran Khan on Thursday evening and they didn't seem to have socially distanced in the same way: www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/25/pakistan-imran-putin-russia-ukraine-invasion

Something else is going on with the long tables with Macron and his own advisors.

@Cam77

Thanks.

I could have also cited Barack Obama's 2016 interview with Jeffrey Goldberg in which he spoke in similar terms:

'Obama declares Ukraine to be not a core American interest and that he is reluctant to intervene in the country, because Russia will always be able to maintain escalatory dominance there. “The fact is that Ukraine, which is a non-NATO country, is going to be vulnerable to military domination by Russia no matter what we do... we have to be very clear about what our core interests are and what we are willing to go to war for... People respond based on what their imperatives are".

Why do some now see it as beyond the pale to suggest that a policy of recognising Russia's security concerns there and following a policy of deescalation may have bore fruit?

It's possible to have these discussions and also abhor and condemn what's happening.

[quote Alexandra2001]@Yeahthat
Pre invasion i argued on here that Ukraine should adopt a non nato stance, i was reminded that its up to the Ukrainians.... my reply was
they will end up with nothing at all if there is war.

I still believe this, the Soviets (they aren't Russians) will not stop they will want Kyiv to Crimea (at least)
I want to believe in a cease fire and things return to some normality but both side would just use it to re group before fighting again.

Sky is reporting (via ukrainian intel so yet to confirm) 300 tanks on Belarus border, when they attack, what will we do? i think nothing at all, we are weak and they know it, they threaten us with a bomb and we will allow Putin to take Ukraine and then what? Poland & Latvia? he is 70, 5 years from now, with a better military, he may well be back.

All he has to do is wave Nuclear war about and we will all stand down.

Now some of this may be down to Biden, he has sent just 7000 extra troops, its a pathetic response that does not match the severity of the crisis.
& Europe hasn't the military to go against Putin.

I think as another PP said, Russia will curve up Ukraine and we will all move on to the next crisis.[/quote]
Biden should leave billions of dollars of weapons behind to arm Ukrainians, wouldn't be the first time

Putin accuses Ukraine of genocide and wishes for a return to the Soviet Union. How many remember this:-

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932–1933

www.facebook.com/13312631635/posts/10160028771301636/?d=n

Oh Jesus this is all we need

@theyhavenothingbuttheaudacity

https://www.facebook.com/13312631635/posts/10160028771301636/?d=n

Oh Jesus this is all we need

Some of the comments on that FB page would be at home on the more hyperbolic MN threads.

It was Khrushchev who said "we will bury you", so perhaps not pathological. And yet the US never actually waged war on Russia.

I was thinking in terms of McCarthyism, which was virulent anti-communism in the USA in the early 1950s and ruined many American's lives a few years before Kruschev's made his remark. Which the American's interpretted as threatening nuclear war, but was it?

Say for instance putin succeeds in his mission to take Ukraine. How long realistically can he continue with all these sanctions in place? What would he do next?

Please can someone offer some words of assurance? The latest news has left me absolutely panicked and I’m finding it difficult to think rationally.

I can’t even begin to imagine the horror the Ukrainian people are going through and the resilience and courage they are continuing to show is awe inspiring.

From a friebd. "Between the defenders of the city should be quite a few foreign volunteers, meanwhile. RUMINT has it, the ‘most famous’ of these is the Alpha Group, led by a Briton, ex-SAS. Supposedly, they have recovered the hydroelectric dam in a pitched battle with the Spetsnaz, back on Friday"

This is unverified, pt

Also reports of a large number of ex-SAS and paras are headed that way.

Both are unconfirmed obviously

I honestly do think it’s headed towards the US and perhaps other NATO members getting more involved. Doesn’t necessarily mean nuclear annihilation but considerably closer to it

Checking in. I keep looking at Twitter to see what changes.

@Catquestion

Please can someone offer some words of assurance? The latest news has left me absolutely panicked and I’m finding it difficult to think rationally.

I can’t even begin to imagine the horror the Ukrainian people are going through and the resilience and courage they are continuing to show is awe inspiring.

Unless something really drastic happens we in the UK are safe at the moment. There is no reassurance to offer about how the Ukrainians are in a terrible situation now, though.

What I am keeping in mind now is that B
there is propaganda on both sides now and also that there are posters here on MN and other SM who want to scare others for reasons that are known only to them. I believe nothing I see posted here unless it has a reputable source alongside it.