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The Invasion is ongoing...Part 5

999 replies

Damnloginpopup · 01/03/2022 15:57

Unbelievable to think that a few days ago the world was starting to look more positive..ye we find ourselves on a fifth thread discussing the horrors of the war in Europe. An unbelievable change has happened to the world we live in.

Some incredible firmed posts have been written, informing, discussing, and occasionally derailing. Let's hope the news is more positive by the end of this one.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Thereisnolight · 01/03/2022 19:43

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MissConductUS · 01/03/2022 19:44

@HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend

Apologies for asking as I assume this will possibly have been asked earlier today.

The 40 mile convoy of Russians, why aren’t drones taking the lot of them out or at least damaging as much ground in front of them to make it impossible to reach Kyiv?

I asked this on the other thread however from what I’ve read here/being reported that the size has been exaggerated and that reports claiming the military vehicles have run out of fuel/broken down…

Ukraine must have intelligence that this convoy isn’t a threat as they would have taken similar action like they did when they obliterated a smaller Russian convoy with TB2 drones a day or so ago.

They wouldn’t need to hit the convoy also just the road into the city to stop access.

Apparently, the Ukrainians have attacked it with drones and artillery.

www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/28/russias-17-mile-convoy-thwarted-road-kyiv/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-onward-journey

It is a sitting duck for whatever forces the UA can throw at it.

Gingerwarthog · 01/03/2022 19:45

Just re-joining thread and catching up on the news properly. Disgusted at the bombing of Babi Yar and damage to the memorial.

Roundeartheratchriatmas · 01/03/2022 19:48

The Americans seem to have been saying, rather coyly, for the last few days that they have intelligence that Putin is ill or has actually gone mad.

Any links to where this is published ?

When they say ill I’m hoping it’s something serious. And quick.

vera99 · 01/03/2022 19:51

@WeQuestionEverything if you have family or connections there I can see why you might say that. But I don't and I don't wish to sound heartless but military engagement between NATO forces and Russian troops in Ukraine is a red line I wouldn't wish to cross.

They are a sophisticated nuclear power that actually has a Doomsday Machine.

www.wired.com/2009/09/mf-deadhand/

reallynowreally · 01/03/2022 19:53

[quote vera99]The Highway of Death in Iraq in 1991 was a several miles long of a convoy of total destruction as retreating Iraqui forces left Kuwait with their pillaged loot. Reportedly US pilots of Wart Hog helicopter gunships were themselves sickened at the maybe 10s of thousands they slaughtered without any fightback.

If Nato forces were to attack the Russian convoy we would be in WW3 with a Russian leadership committed to using tactical nuclear weapons as a matter of policy, not a last resort. We stand with Ukraine in every possible respect except we cannot and will not engage military directly with Russian forces. Not unless we wish on mass destruction in Europe and possibly beyond if that was to happen then a truly unimaginable nightmare will have begun.

[/quote] Wow that is so eye opening! Thank you for this. It's just so difficult! It's like we're asking our untrusted leaders to direct us, what hope do we have 😭
FOJN · 01/03/2022 19:53

A friend has just started leaving reviews on trip advisor for Russian restaurants with information about what's happening in Ukraine. I think it's worth a go.

I've just had a look, trip advisor are not publishing new reviews for Moscow restaurants because of recent activity which has drawn media attention and did not reflect first hand experience!

MissConductUS · 01/03/2022 19:55

@Roundeartheratchriatmas

The Americans seem to have been saying, rather coyly, for the last few days that they have intelligence that Putin is ill or has actually gone mad.

Any links to where this is published ?

When they say ill I’m hoping it’s something serious. And quick.

www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/01/vladimir-putin-sick-covid-russia-ukraine-invasion-illness/

It sounds pretty serious.

notimagain · 01/03/2022 19:56

@MissConductUS

Apparently, the Ukrainians have attacked it with drones and artillery…..It is a sitting duck for whatever forces the UA can throw at it.

Problem is that link/report from the Telegraph is 24 hours old and there don’t seem to have been any more major attacks on that convoy…

It’s quite possible the jam was started by engagements on the leading vehicles, as described in the report, but there seems to have been nothing since, so it doesn’t appear as if the UA have got much that they can throw at the convoy.

This report is from a few hours back:

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/01/vast-russian-military-convoy-kyiv-siege-ukraine

As the hours go by is getting harder and harder to disagree with the comment that:

“ Despite its scale and the way it has blocked the road for miles, it appears largely unmolested. This suggests Ukraine’s air force is no longer sufficiently intact to target it in a meaningful way and that Ukraine has not been able to bring drones, used successfully elsewhere, to hit it.”

RedToothBrush · 01/03/2022 19:59

@vera99

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/01/battle-kyiv-will-utter-tragedy/

The battle for Kyiv will be an utter tragedy

Nothing comes as close to the chaos and confusion of urban warfare. It will likely be a bloodbath for both sides

ROBERT CLARK
1 March 2022 • 1:30pm
Almost a week of war in Ukraine and there remains much confusion as to just how much progress the invading Russians have made. While Ukrainians – ordinary people and soldiers alike – have undoubtedly put up a robust defence thus far, the next few days will unfortunately require even tougher resistance.

Indeed, Russia has played a cleverer game than some are able to see. To put this invasion into a historical perspective, Putin's forces have taken more ground than the Wehrmacht had in Germany’s blitzkrieg of Poland in 1939 in the same period of time. Many have been blinded by Ukraine’s successful defence of forward positions and the apparent avoidance of large urban areas by the invaders, as well as the Ukrainian government's effective use of social media. However, the picture on the battlefield may soon shift decisively.

Russia now appears to be close – if it has not already happened – to breaking over the Dnieper River at the strategic southern town of Nova Kakhovka. This affords its forces an almost entirely undefended land-bridge to both Odessa and, crucially, the southern approach to Kyiv. This action could effectively cut off much of the Ukrainian Army, approximately two thirds of which lay to the east of the Dnieper. Surrounded, such forces would be subject to the mercy of Russia’s next wave of reinforcements, crossing from multiple sides.

Today, social media is littered with examples of the resolute spirit of Kyiv's residents as they endure days of air raids and skirmishes in the suburbs. This a city prepared to fight, and soon it will have to. What is coming will be a tragedy for all, for nothing comes as close to the chaos and confusion of urban warfare. Largely obscured from the current Russian advance, the battle for Kyiv, a city of millions of largely armed civilians, will be nothing short of a bloodbath, for both sides.

Ukrainians hold a numerical advantage in the city, with the Russians doctrinally requiring approximately five soldiers for every armed defender. Kyiv residents and the military units already there are busy placing obstacles, road blocks, and citing likely ambush positions for the inevitable assault. Every street a sniper’s playground, each junction an ambush point for advancing armoured columns.

The break-in for the Russians will be tough, so it might well be preceded by a renewed and even deadlier orbital bombardment and artillery barrage to soften up the city’s defences and intimidate the defenders into fleeing. One of the great ironies will be that, the more dogged the defence of the city becomes, the more hubris we will see from Russian forces: we should expect Russian regard for civilian casualties to deteriorate.

We in the West have not experienced such brutal warfare save in part during the Iraq War, and before that, the Second World War. It will shock us, but we must remain resolute in our support for Ukraine’s right to exist and increasingly support them with military hardware.

Robert Clark is a Defence Fellow at Civitas. He served for fifteen years in the British military, including deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan

Hmm. That puts an interesting new light on things.

Kyiv first problem now isn't bombs and military attacks.

Its food.

The Russians don't have to take the city.

When Sarajevo was put under seige, they were able to get at least supplies through secret passages under the airport (which was neutral as it was handed to UN forces for humanitarian reasons which was also helping avert an even worst crisis).

Kyiv's population (pre war 2,962,180) is about seven times the size of Sarajevo (pre Bosnian war 435,000). We don't know how many people are still there but its going to be a lot.

I would say the prospect of a similar humanitarian mission are very slim.

I do think there needs to be a serious conversation about an organised evacuation of civilians. Soon.

DuncinToffee · 01/03/2022 20:01

twitter.com/DominicWaghorn/status/1498742755924848640?t=DOEqwKlV48ygF1dmJlcNbg&s=19

Two of the last independent media organisations left in Russia shut down. Twitter, Facebook and social media throttled. Putin regime determined to crush any alternative to the very misleading version of its war in Ukraine its state media is peddling.

Tigersonvaseline · 01/03/2022 20:01

" the weaknesses of our government has enabled Putin"

Don't you think your attributing a little too much power to our government???

I don't understand some poster's. All we have heard is how utterly pathetic And poor And stupid and alone our country is and how we will be lost without the EU ( a trading block) and yet now, we are some massive huge power that has soley enabled Putin 🤣🤣 and our leaving the EU has crippled and weakened " everything"...as in real time ( deeper russian money links aside) we are moving in tandem with the rest of the world , moving as one not just with the EU (and putting pressure on the EU) but with the rest of the world.

We are doing a lot.

I don't get it And I'm not interested in the replies.

Choccy21 · 01/03/2022 20:01

Can Putin be arrested or charred with war crimes, including hose closest to him?
If so, I’d have thought his cronies would have that in mind?
War crimes is as serious as it gets, other leaders have gone to The Hague and been imprisoned.
Sounds daft, but I’d assume Putin can’t be arrested by any agencies?..

Yeahthat · 01/03/2022 20:03

@Wrongkindofovercoat

Ah, sorry. I misunderstood.

vera99 · 01/03/2022 20:03

twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1498598337674719232

Dmitry Grozoubinski
@DmitryOpines
The cool thing about calling anything short of a No-Fly Zone over Ukraine "appeasement" is that you know it won't actually happen because leaders don't want World War III.

You thus get all the benefits of winning the self-righteousness Olympics without any of the consequences.

Alexandra2001 · 01/03/2022 20:05

@MarshaBradyo

Davies and Ellwood have backed establishing a no fly zone (something Biden has ruled out because they simply won't risk escalating to direct military confrontation)

I’m surprised at this, I had thought all were on same page but I need to read up on it and hear more on why the first two think it’s a good idea. Atm feeling grateful to Biden but maybe they have other reasons for believing into wouldn’t escalate things too far.

Ellwood has been right all along so far.

Very soon Kyiv and the other cities will run out of food, meds healthcare then we can all sit back and watch, reassured and comforted we did all we could, after all the wealthy should be given 30 days to sort out their affairs.

AuldAlliance · 01/03/2022 20:05

@Choccy21

Can Putin be arrested or charred with war crimes, including hose closest to him? If so, I’d have thought his cronies would have that in mind? War crimes is as serious as it gets, other leaders have gone to The Hague and been imprisoned. Sounds daft, but I’d assume Putin can’t be arrested by any agencies?..
Some answers here twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1498741230112587782?s=20&t=8H1NmLibQ6F-niqpATzZzQ
Alexandra2001 · 01/03/2022 20:06

@Tigersonvaseline ah! the selective quote....

WeQuestionEverything · 01/03/2022 20:07

@vera99

I am UK based, not in Ukraine if that is what you mean. Bullies are the same wherever we are. They need to be hit hard, with conviction and decisively. That is the nature of war. We ended up on the bullies' side with Bush junior and (importantly) his senators that privatised war. I never agreed with 2003 and what happened later, though I learned from it.

Crucially, I do not believe Russia will go nuclear. I cannot stress enough this is my belief. You have your own and the question I am asking is what would you do next? Rather than rhetorical questions, I am wondering if any posters would be prepared to cross a line. Because that is what it is about now. I would do so now, this day.

This is what I would do:

  1. A non-Nato coalition hits the 40 mile armoured column and destroys part of it (and only part).
  1. Substantial engagement is directed at the Russian people to confirm this is a war against Putin's aggression only and that Russia is part of Europe, always has been, and every Russian man and woman has the same rights human and political rights that we have.
  1. Ensure that 1 and 2 are delivered in equal measure.
EngTech · 01/03/2022 20:09

I think people forget that we have been “attacked” on UK soil I.e Salisbury 😔 plus a dissident was killed with a radioactive pellet 😔

cakeorwine · 01/03/2022 20:09

Very soon Kyiv and the other cities will run out of food, meds healthcare then we can all sit back and watch, reassured and comforted we did all we could, after all the wealthy should be given 30 days to sort out their affairs

In the longer term ,Kyiv and cities to the East might fall, but that will not mean the end of Ukraine.

There will still be a Ukraine and a Ukrainian population. With Russian soldiers either trying to occupy it or a puppet regime in charge.

With hopefully the Western part of Ukraine still in Ukrainian hands and fighting back and resistance happening in the cities and towns in different ways to make sure no Russian soldier feels safe.

MarshaBradyo · 01/03/2022 20:09

Ellwood has been right all along so far.

Alex do you mean you agree with the no fly zone? So we would go with Ellwood rather than Biden

But what do you think the escalation would be?

RedToothBrush · 01/03/2022 20:10

@Choccy21

Can Putin be arrested or charred with war crimes, including hose closest to him? If so, I’d have thought his cronies would have that in mind? War crimes is as serious as it gets, other leaders have gone to The Hague and been imprisoned. Sounds daft, but I’d assume Putin can’t be arrested by any agencies?..
Who exactly is going to arrest him? Do you think that the Russian police are going to come and go 'we arrest you'? For him to be arrested he has to be first overthrown. The chances of him going willingly are slim. The only way he's leaving the Kremlim permenantly is in a body bag.

Heads of State haven't got to the Hague. Lower ranked officials do. Heads of State tend to get tried by the mob or save everyone else the trouble.

Gingerwarthog · 01/03/2022 20:11

Watching BBC and news of Ukrainian nationals living in Ireland going home to fight.
Also footage of Ukrainian crowds jumping on tanks, forcing them to stop and of the Pravda brewery in Lviv changing their function from brewing beer to using their beer bottles to make Molotov cocktails.

CPL593H · 01/03/2022 20:12

As I see it, they can use as they are bombs and missiles against Kyiv but unless they plan to utterly flatten it first, it will potentially come to Russian boots on the ground going in to face people determined to defend their capital at all costs. Not hard to believe the Ukrainians left will fight with whatever they've got, given events to date.

I'm not military and don't profess any special knowledge whatever, but I know it is a very different sort of fighting. I remember an old friend (RIP Bill) who was one of the liberators in a quite celebrated battle for a Dutch town. He didn't say much but what he did reflected clearly that hand to hand, house to house fighting is incredibly intense (and they were very motivated indeed to remove the occupying Nazis)

I wonder how many of the young Russian soldiers in that column will really be so resolute faced with people speaking/understanding their own language, hurling Molotov cocktails at them? No way of knowing, but I do wonder.