The invasion continues - Thread No.4

[ChimChimeny]

Following the previous (2? 3?) Threads

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4492641-The-Invasion-Has-Stalled

TheSillyMastiff maybe Sweden can send a bunch of Volvos down to Ukraine

It's one thing to enter a conflict, fully briefed, with full understanding of what is expected of you, compared to being lied to about a "excercise" and a "operation".

Sky news reported earlier that journalists are being asked to use the words "special operation" rather than war or invasion.

They are still trying to create a narrative they are saving Ukraine.

Kennel Club have barred Russian exhibitors at Crufts.

itsgettingweird

It's one thing to enter a conflict, fully briefed, with full understanding of what is expected of you, compared to being lied to about a "excercise" and a "operation".

Sky news reported earlier that journalists are being asked to use the words "special operation" rather than war or invasion.

They are still trying to create a narrative they are saving Ukraine.

It’s quite shocking to try to imagine not having access to information / accuracy on a daily basis.

Very interesting article (BBC online) by Jane Wakefield on 'How the war is being waged online'.

@Gingerwarthog
Yes I speak Russian and it’s true to speak and be understood properly you do need to think differently but I’m not sure how to explain it. You can’t just translate from English but after enough time in a country you pick up the nuances. You only have to study early 20th century Russian literature to know how many references were being made to what was going on (Master and Margarita for example)

@ENoeuf

I have a question (which I’ve asked elsewhere but no reply I think) - how long with no military support can Ukraine survive and unless Putin withdraws are we just waiting until It falls? It feels incredibly voyeuristic in a way.

And to pp re: reading the threads before posting, I did skim through and I think I was on the first one but there are so many about Ukraine I wanted to check these were the continuing more serious ones.

It's really difficult to say because Russia is not really proceeding in the way you would expect. e.g. they have hundreds of aircraft in the region and all sorts of electronic warfare capabilities, but Ukrainian aircraft and drones are still flying around, which really doesn't make any sense.

It looks like they're not committed to full-on indiscriminate warfare yet either, e.g. carpet bombing Kyiv to rubble.

If they do go all out you would not expect the Ukrainian regime to last very long, but we would probably then shift into an extended insurgency with the Ukrainians being robustly supplied by NATO states, and that could last a very long time.

It's a very strange war so far. I don't think anyone is making any really hard predictions.

Finland has decided to send weapons to Ukraine. We have a law against sending weapons to warzones so this is quite something. Neutrality seems wrong when war is so close doesn't it? Like that quote about if you don't pick a side to support, then you're picking the side of the oppressor.

@CaveMum

Kennel Club have barred Russian exhibitors at Crufts.

This’ll do the trick for sure. Bless the Kennel Club.

@PeonyRose80

Thank you *@Igotjelly* makes sense.

Sorry I lie it was the other way around.

War crimes came up on one of the previous threads, this just now on BBC live

International Criminal Court to investigate invasion
The International Criminal Court will open an investigation into alleged war crime conducted by Russia in Ukraine.

"There is a reasonable basis to believe that both alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity have been committed in Ukraine," Karim AA Khan, the ICC prosecutor has said.

"It is my intention that this investigation will also encompass any new alleged crimes falling within the jurisdiction of my Office that are committed by any party to the conflict on any part of the territory of Ukraine".

twitter.com/charliehtweets/status/1498240437122961409?s=21

"A Ukrainian man has been arrested for attempting to sink the €7m yacht owned by his boss - Russian arms tycoon Alexander Mijeev. He opened valves in the engine room and compartment - then told the crew to abandon ship. Hauled in front of a judge, he said "I'd do it again"."

I wonder how many other acts such as this we will see.

@dreamingbohemian thank you for your reply. I’ve been trying to read up on Ukraine and the recent past before really posting much because I didn’t want to make assumptions. That’s really interesting what you are saying, I wonder if it’s because they didn’t think Ukraine would hold up / defend themselves with such vigour.

Thanks for the informative, non hysterical threads.

US have apparently expelled 12 members of Russia's UN mission, they have to leave by 7th March.

I was pleased to see this in the Evening Standard
www.standard.co.uk/news/world/president-vladimir-putin-please-stop-ukraine-war-evgeny-lebedev-b985076.html

@UKRAINEwearewithyou

"When your attacker is a lunatic with nuclear weapons some things are best kept on the down low."

when you have Liz Truss constantly saying we were the first to do this against Russia and that against Russia etc etc. She needs to point out that the majority of the world are against Russia and button it a bit. She has already been named as the reason for the nuclear alert. STFU Truss and talk about how nations are saying this and that as a joint unity. What's with the ' we did this and that' claiming.

I've said a few times over these threads I wish the UK would drop the "first best biggest" rhetoric.

It's a) unnecessary and b) actually makes us bigger targets and can because against us.

Russians not being able to exhibit dogs at Crufts-
I bet Putin really cares about that!

However, yer average Russian might be disappointed.

*I've said a few times over these threads I wish the UK would drop the "first best biggest" rhetoric.

It's a) unnecessary and b) actually makes us bigger targets and can because against us.*

Unfortunately we have a government that seems to think that everything is a competition. We saw it throughout the pandemic as well. Rather than work with our neighbours they want to belittle and compete with them.

From Wikipedia, Conscription in Russia:
“As of 2021, all male citizens aged 18–27 are subject to conscription for 1 year of active duty military service in armed forces, but the precise number of conscripts for each of the recruitment campaigns, which are usually held twice annually, is prescribed by particular Presidential Decree.[12] Russian law provides some grounds for temporary postponement of and permanent exemption from military draft.”

Can we please understand who the majority of the Russian soldiers sent to Ukraine are? Are they professionals with X years of experience vs ordinary and naive conscripts plus 1 year (or even some who are mere conscripts)? Does anyone have an article or further information?

I was listening to LBC around 5pm today. There was a discussion on some of the Russian soldiers in the Ukraine and how they thought they were on a simple exercise. Once captured the Ukrainians gave them phones to call their mothers who thought they were on e.g an exercise in the Crimea where said mothers had sent food parcels.
Is this really a plausible narrative?

I’ll never forget my Polish exDH explaining to my mother that “us Poles hate the Germans but fear the Russians”

@Ramalamadingdongs

Thanks for the informative, non hysterical threads.

Yes thank you, I have been reading all the threads they are very informative.

Thanks for the new thread.
@RedToothBrush - your post of 18.04 was fascinating - thank you.

@Gingerwarthog

Heartbreaking scenes from Lviv train station (BBC). A young Dad saying goodbye to his infant son - both of their hands up to the train window.

On the bbc this morning an elderly lady was filmed crying, broke my heart to see her.

Just heard on news a young Ukrainian boy was killed after the ambulance he was travelling to hospital in was fired upon by Russia forces