The invasion continues - Thread No.4

[ChimChimeny]

Following the previous (2? 3?) Threads

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4492641-The-Invasion-Has-Stalled

@Alondra

Could you answer if you think Putin is justified in his actions

Could you answer if the US was justified in detonating the atomic bomb in Japan?

Could you justify the US using biological warfare agent Orange in Vietnam?

Could you justify the assassination of Allende in Chile by US commandos to put one of biggest murderers, Pinochet, in power?

Can you justify the intervention in Iraq under the threat of mass distruction that never were?

I don't want wars. I detest wars. The only people who suffer in wars is the little people, all of us. We pay for them with our taxes and lives - the ones playing the chess game, Putin or Biden, don't give a fuck about us.

But when you ask me if Putin is justified in his actions, you are being part of the same fucking propaganda machine that's at the bottom of this war.

No answer then.

No surprise there but I am interested - how far are you backing him?

How many more countries - your own?

If the Ukraine resistance continues it starts to look a bit like Vietnam. When civilians are ready to fight, it changes the dynamic massively IMO.

This feels like the calm before the storm This.

@LampLighter414. that's called being human. We've all been affected by what's happening in Ukraine. Please don't make it all about you.

MarshaBradyo

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend
Russia asked for ceasefire discussions because of pressure from their closest partners, not sanctions.

Did you mean Ukraine? As I’ve seen/read absolutely nothing that Russia has asked for a ceasefire while Ukraine has…. yet Russia is still bombing civilians!
Re top line where is ceasefire part coming from?

MarshaBradyo

It was in a post from continu however they’ve since explained what they meant.

Although I’m still struggling to understand why ask for negotiations and continue the war at the same time and then start bombings even after negotiations where requested to continue….

@RedToothBrush
I think your points about the coverage of war having changed and become a lot more graphic and "full on" in the 24/7 news cycle are well made. However, I'd also add that in this conflict much of Western media has gone into overdrive - seeking out some of the most upsetting/violent images of conflict they can find and repeating them on loop. Coverage of Western invasions or "interventions" meanwhile, is usually much more measured. Images of war and destruction are nearly always then presented as "the tragic but unavoidable collateral of a tragic but probably necessary conflict". Always with the clear narratives. But most people seem unaware of them.

If it is the beginning of the end of days there's not much we can do about that aspect, i.e. the end. In the meanwhile some religious people and some non-religious people will be feeding the hungry and welcoming the stranger as much as they can.

Haud I see what you mean, I guess it continues until an agreement is reached. Fingers crossed for it to happen

Not adding anything to the debate, but in the last few days I've thought nostalgically about post Stalin old Soviet warhorses.

The whole invasion seems so off key and inept on Russia's part that I have wondered if Putin is actually listening to his senior military about any aspect or has decided he knows best and to ignore their advice. Such behaviour is not without precedent in history.

[quote Cam77]@dreamingbohemian
but you cannot deny that the annexation violated international law and constitutes illegal aggression by Russia.

Why should Russia concern itself with "international law" when its rivals do not?[/quote]
Well clearly it doesn't care about international law, so I don't know why its supporters don't just admit it, instead of engaging in all this whataboutery.

I can sit here and say the US/UK invasion of Iraq was morally wrong and unlawful. I absolutely agree with that.

I don't see the Putin supporters on this thread admitting that annexing Crimea and invading Ukraine is unlawful. Because they agree with what he's doing. Just admit it.

World Central Kitchen aleteia.org/2022/02/28/chef-jose-andres-teams-up-with-catholic-nuns-at-ukraine-border/
www.nbcnews.com/now/video/how-world-central-kitchen-is-feeding-ukrainians-fleeing-russian-invasion-134210629850

@IamSamantha

What benefit is keeping the russian stock exchange closed? I didn't know they could stop trading.

I don't understand? Is this simply to hold off the rouble literally crashing through the floor? Does it allow Putin time to syphon off more physical money and store it?

Evey stock market closes when unexpected news / events send prices spiral out of control. It is called a circuit breaker. It allows market participants to absorb the news and react in a more measured way. Also delays the realisation of losses.

@CPL593H
The whole invasion seems so off key and inept on Russia's part

It's possible that this is the case. It's also possible that these blunders are minor and early, are being seriously over egged by Western media, and will have minimal consequence on a conflict that could continue for months or years. From a quick reading of Western headlines you would think this is the first time in history a country's inhabitants have fought fiercely and bravely to try to stave off a much stronger rival. Sometimes the resistance succeeds and sometimes not, but the fighting for territory is often counted in years , not days.

@RedToothBrush It seems that we're pretty much in agreement (as usual!)

Russia is looking bad from all angles on this at the moment. I don't think that Putin is mad, but he is very, very dangerous. My biggest concern is that Putin more than almost anybody else in the world will not want to look weak/to have miscalculated/to have basically fcked the whole thing up. When push comes to shove, he's the one person that really does have the potential to do something terrible. Rat in the corner etc. Hideous. The convoy is also really bothering me. (and like when I didn't sleep for 4 days during the US election, I'm doing pretty similar now, and not much work!)

How many more countries - your own?

Well...now you are talking about my own county maybe I should let you know that I'm a Spaniard. A country where a dictator like Franco, who exterminated hundred of thousands of lives after the civil war ended, was only able to do so with the support of the US. USA was looking for a communist witch hunt thanks to McCarthy and supported Franco without giving a shit about the people he massacred because they were republicans.

You have fucking no idea about geopolitics and how it affects all of us.

Re the tankers and the refuelling, the tanker mentioned earlier was out of Mildenhall so was US Air Force. There have been some RAF tankers in the area in recent days but they will have flown out of RAF Akrotiri which is in Cyprus.

Supplies and hardware donated by the UK are being flown out of RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire, which is the RAF's logistics hub.

It's also worth remembering that a lot of military planes in the area will not be visible on Flightradar and the like.

@Cam77 Agree that western media hype plays a part in the impression that this isn't going well too.

@Alondra

How many more countries - your own?

Well...now you are talking about my own county maybe I should let you know that I'm a Spaniard. A country where a dictator like Franco, who exterminated hundred of thousands of lives after the civil war ended, was only able to do so with the support of the US. USA was looking for a communist witch hunt thanks to McCarthy and supported Franco without giving a shit about the people he massacred because they were republicans.

You have fucking no idea about geopolitics and how it affects all of us.

I know you cannot answer a simple question re whether you think Putin is justified.

By your silence then we can only assume you do and support his actions.

Dreaming agree with your posts too.

The RUSI guy who wrote that article about why Russian airpower is a bit missing in action has a twitter thread here with more interesting suggestions in the replies:

twitter.com/Justin_Br0nk/status/1498324442690342920?s=20&t=57YxZ-f8mnCaLy_44zKqkA

Thanks Marsha I agree the silence is deafening

Question which is probably silly ...

Given the 40mile 🇷🇺 column of army vehicles going slowly on the road, why don't the 🇺🇦 Air Force fly over and bomb them?

Does 🇺🇦 have an Air Force?

I guess it would draw out russian fighters and the Ukrainians don't want air to air fighting?