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The invasion continues - Thread No.4

999 replies

ChimChimeny · 28/02/2022 17:48

Following the previous (2? 3?) Threads

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4492641-The-Invasion-Has-Stalled

OP posts:
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15
bluetongue · 28/02/2022 21:07

I just don’t understand how Putin and his advisors though Ukraine and the Ukrainians would just rollover and let him take over the country. Their recent history is revolution and massive protests to try and retain independence.

Maybe Putin just has a massive ego and doesn’t care.

Roundeartheratchriatmas · 28/02/2022 21:09

I wonder if he believes his own propaganda. Or if his advisors are too afraid to tell him the truth ?

Roundeartheratchriatmas · 28/02/2022 21:09

In photographs of his meetings he is always far away from others - is he (rightly?) paranoid about an assassination ?

Igotjelly · 28/02/2022 21:10

@bluetongue

I just don’t understand how Putin and his advisors though Ukraine and the Ukrainians would just rollover and let him take over the country. Their recent history is revolution and massive protests to try and retain independence.

Maybe Putin just has a massive ego and doesn’t care.

I wonder if this is where things like the giant table come into play. He’s clearly become so isolated that he’s basically in an echo chamber surrounded only by yes men.
DGRossetti · 28/02/2022 21:10

@TokyoSushi

Agree, since 2016 it's been one thing after another! 😭
History is just one damn thing after another
continu · 28/02/2022 21:10

@Roundeartheratchriatmas

In photographs of his meetings he is always far away from others - is he (rightly?) paranoid about an assassination ?
covid I think
ZippyZap · 28/02/2022 21:13

Someone with covid needs to visit Putin 😁

Olden · 28/02/2022 21:13

@TokyoSushi

Agree, since 2016 it's been one thing after another! 😭
We need to go back to the 90s, everything was good in the 90s. We need the 90s on a perpetual loop
VerandaSanta · 28/02/2022 21:13

@Roundeartheratchriatmas

In photographs of his meetings he is always far away from others - is he (rightly?) paranoid about an assassination ?
No, apparently it's because he's absolutely terrified of catching covid. Seriously.
Igotjelly · 28/02/2022 21:14

Incidentally shows just how paranoid he is.

CaveMum · 28/02/2022 21:14

I posted the Kennel Club statement to offer a bit of “light relief” but the point is valid that whilst it may not bother Putin in the slightest, it will make life difficult for some Russians which only helps to build resentment against the current regime.

What’s the betting there are a few wives of Oligarchs with pampered pedigree pooches that they like to take to major shows…

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 28/02/2022 21:15

We're always on edge so I can't begin to imagine what life is like for people who are literally waking up to the sounds of explosions every day.

From CS Lewis: Learning in Wartime

The war creates no absolutely new situation: it simply aggravates the permanent human situation so that we can no longer ignore it. Human life has always been lived on the edge of a precipice. Human culture has always had to exist under the shadow of something infinitely more important than itself.

www.stgeorgecathedral.net/learning-in-war-time

I often think of this because during lockdown some young colleagues were coping with it very well. When they discussed it with others, they revealed that until they managed to escape and obtain asylum, they'd lived for some years in a basement with their families to avoid shelling. One had spent the first 3 years of his life like that.

Normalising such things and living under those conditions takes its toll. And it's still true that life has always been lived "on the edge of a precipice"—it's just that we've lived in a prosperous country and during an comparatively stable time of history in our part of the world (albeit we've been involved in conflicts elsewhere).

Roundeartheratchriatmas · 28/02/2022 21:16

I’m also wondering about all of those huge multi National companies that also have offices/hotels/stores and so on in Russia.

Are they being pressured to close ? Should they be ?

Wannago · 28/02/2022 21:16

@CPL593H The whole issue and the longstanding speculation about Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and his relationship with Putin/the Kremlin is to say the least interesting, but I don't want to derail.

Please, just a brief summary - it seems highly relevant to me.

While I get your point about Eastern Catholics, I presume Putin wouldn't care, he would presumably consider them irrelevant. But given the background that this article gave, which I knew nothing about, about the importance of Kyiv, and then the idea that it is, in Putin's eyes, in the hands of renegades - well doesn't that make it something of a crusade for him as well - "retaking the holy city". So wouldn't his relationship with Patriarch Krill possibly be highly relevant.

ParsleySageRosemary · 28/02/2022 21:16

@RedToothBrush

Re denazification.

Its an example of rendering language meaningless. It's deliberate.

The Russian state has a lot of its identity post WW2 in terms of how the glorious empire of the Soviet Union defeated the Nazis. In a way not dissimilar to our own national identity. It says 'Hey we are the Good Guys'

However Putin is behaving like a Nazi and the state media is using phrases like 'solution to the Jewish question'.

But if Putin accuses his enemy as being Nazis he is both trying to tap into this nostalgic sense of identity and nationalism and has already used up the discourse over Nazis.

It renders the ability to talk about Nazis more difficult for the opposition. No one knows what a Nazi is anymore, so it renders it impossible to use.

Hes also tapping into older anti-semitic and genuine Nazi sentiment with the Ukrainian Solution language. There has been a big rise in far right groups in Russia so this appeals to him.

Thus Putin is both anti-fascist and fascist at the same time. Again rendering the word meaningless.

Its an Orwellian type trick well detailed in 1984 which in turn was based on Soviet style brain washing. You say things are both one thing which is completely the opposite to reality. How many fingers am I holding up Winston.

Its all about empire, making it harder to question genocidal behaviour and an invasion.

Remember this is all about the notion of Soviet/Russian Empire. It is the classic looking back to history as something to aspire to (Hitler was trying to recreate a notion of a modern Roman Empire which would last a thousand years).

So don't think its nonsense or bullshit. Its playing to several different Russian audiences at the same time and trying to occupy the space which opposition would also normally hold.

Going back to this and the mention of religious identity, it’s probably worth noting that Tsarist Russia always saw itself as the natural successor to Byzantium (aka Eastern Rome), courtesy of orthodox Christianity. Norman Davies talks about it in some of his books (I’ve been going through my shelves). It’s also mentioned on the internet at theconversation.com/the-byzantine-history-of-putins-russian-empire-90616

I will swear I read something recently about Russia’s territorial ambitions stretching as far as the straits of the Black Sea, which of course is where Byzantium/ Constantinople/ Istanbul sits which would link present and past. Presumably that’s why Turkey was looking for allies. Good job they did.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 28/02/2022 21:17

Someone with covid needs to visit Putin

Can we volunteer Liz Truss?

PicsInRed · 28/02/2022 21:17

If he has cancer, as rumoured, he certainly wouldn't want to catch covid.

oakleaffy · 28/02/2022 21:17

@CaveMum

I posted the Kennel Club statement to offer a bit of “light relief” but the point is valid that whilst it may not bother Putin in the slightest, it will make life difficult for some Russians which only helps to build resentment against the current regime.

What’s the betting there are a few wives of Oligarchs with pampered pedigree pooches that they like to take to major shows…

Probably quite likely. Polish Whippets make it to Championship shows here, so why not Russian ones?

I bet there will be some exhibits from Russia.

PicsInRed · 28/02/2022 21:18

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Someone with covid needs to visit Putin

Can we volunteer Liz Truss?

Boris always has covid, let's convene a peace summit.
vera99 · 28/02/2022 21:20

Putin is probably here hopefully like Hitler in Berlin in April 1945. Never in my life would a death be so celebrated.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Yamantau

oakleaffy · 28/02/2022 21:20

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Someone with covid needs to visit Putin

Can we volunteer Liz Truss?

Yes! She can say ''Hhhhhhhhhhhhhello Mr Presidenttttt Puttttin huffing germs and spittle from the plosives ...
Scraggythang · 28/02/2022 21:25

That tickled me @PicsInRed 🤣

tabulahrasa · 28/02/2022 21:28

@Roundeartheratchriatmas

In photographs of his meetings he is always far away from others - is he (rightly?) paranoid about an assassination ?
He’s supposedly massively paranoid about covid and has basically been isolating the entire time and illness in general, being ill isn’t great for the strong image he wants.
BigHuff · 28/02/2022 21:29

BBC reported an hour or so ago that Germany had dispatched four warships to the baltic sea - these are now being joined by planes. Hmm.

SmokedGlass · 28/02/2022 21:30

Great info coming from this thread
You mumsnetters are have great varied insights - it’s interesting to read so many views

surely there’s someone who can take the bastard out though?

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