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The invasion continues - Thread No.4

999 replies

ChimChimeny · 28/02/2022 17:48

Following the previous (2? 3?) Threads

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4492641-The-Invasion-Has-Stalled

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
Tigersonvaseline · 28/02/2022 20:42

I'm sure the majority of the Russian people feel exactly the same. the tide of COVID turning And now this;

Did anyone see Hungary has apparently banned lethal aid for Ukraine going through it's land??

MrsTerryPratchett · 28/02/2022 20:42

My worry here is that normal people are now fighting in Ukraine, which is totally understandable and heroic, but anyone and everyone gets arms, there is no assessment, no training, it is being described as guerilla warfare, it just really worries me - what is going to happen with these people after the war, what ongoing effects?

@continu I spend most of these threads in awe and not commenting because I don't know enough. I do know a small amount about trauma.

The likelihood is that there will be far-reaching MH consequences as well as obvious shorter term physical disabilities and deaths. However, there's some evidence that fighters with 'right' on their side do better mentally following conflict than those who don't (the worst is to lose with futility like the Americans in Vietnam). The people believing they are defending their homeland do better mentally and have access to much greater social supports. The Russian conscripts are likely to fare much worse mentally, especially if they 'lose'.

Violence still breeds violence though and PTSD is horrible and pernicious.

Alexandra2001 · 28/02/2022 20:44

@TokyoSushi

Agree, since 2016 it's been one thing after another! 😭
Yep i fuckin hate Putin, the world has been through a once in a century pandemic and this cnut decides "lets have a war, just what we all want"

If there really is a God, Putin will have a massive stroke tonight.

BoreOfWhabylon · 28/02/2022 20:44

This interview with Michael Portillo is several days old now but I found it very interesting. He talks about historical context and why Putin believes Ukraine is part of Russia. The original Rus People (Vikings!) settled in Kyiv and before Russia.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=hqbEE4uboNk&t=201s

FatFredsFriedEgg · 28/02/2022 20:44

Thanks continu

IWantItThatWay002 · 28/02/2022 20:45

.

Tigersonvaseline · 28/02/2022 20:46

Isn't the actor Sean Penn out there?

continu · 28/02/2022 20:49

@BlueFlavour

A lot of Zelensky’s father’s family were murdered in the Holocaust. Doubtful that he’s a NeoNazi.
I don't think the reference to neo nazis is to do with Zelensky himself, unless he is being accused of allowing the fighting in the East, the Donbass region, to be done by neo nazis? Only one seat in the Ukrainian government is in the hands of a neo nazi party, though they are high profile. I might be totally wrong, but I thought it was the fighting in Donbass which was accredited to neo nazis.
TheSillyMastiff · 28/02/2022 20:50

Not that this will change things, but many Ukrainians including women have done 12-18 months of conscription, it was due to end in 2025. Conscription personnel however were not sent to active war zones. So a large amount of Ukrainian civilians know weapon handling skills.

But again yes a ceasefire is desperately needed.

MarshaBradyo · 28/02/2022 20:50

@TokyoSushi

Agree, since 2016 it's been one thing after another! 😭
It’s madness. Just as one crisis ends 😫

The other thing is I can’t remember how they got such rolling news pre 2016

Brexit filled it for so long, years, pandemic for two years

Hoping we get past this and it’s all talking points re stuff again

StormzyinaTCup · 28/02/2022 20:50

He was on Thursday/Friday but no idea if he is still out there. With the no fly zone he would have had to leave by Saturday if he was going to go back to the US. He may of course have popped over the border into eg. Poland.

Roundeartheratchriatmas · 28/02/2022 20:50

According to the Vice Prime Minister of Ukraine and Minister of Digital Transformation of Ukraine starlink has arrived there.

HappyWinter · 28/02/2022 20:51

@TokyoSushi

Agree, since 2016 it's been one thing after another! 😭
It has, I'd actually forgotten that we used to have headlines about WAGs and Katie Price. Even after this, we still have climate change to deal with, that's going to be the big issue. Sometimes I don't want to think about it all.
vera99 · 28/02/2022 20:52

Lord Lebedev son of a living KGB officer with close ties to Putin who took 5 days to write his lacklustre plea to Putin in the Evening Standard hasn't spoken in either of the 2 debates the House of Lords has had on Ukraine. What exactly was his peerage as an "unelected bureaucrat for?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/26/boris-johnson-security-evgeny-lebedev-perugia-party

CPL593H · 28/02/2022 20:55

@MrsTerryPratchett

My worry here is that normal people are now fighting in Ukraine, which is totally understandable and heroic, but anyone and everyone gets arms, there is no assessment, no training, it is being described as guerilla warfare, it just really worries me - what is going to happen with these people after the war, what ongoing effects? *@continu* I spend most of these threads in awe and not commenting because I don't know enough. I do know a small amount about trauma.

The likelihood is that there will be far-reaching MH consequences as well as obvious shorter term physical disabilities and deaths. However, there's some evidence that fighters with 'right' on their side do better mentally following conflict than those who don't (the worst is to lose with futility like the Americans in Vietnam). The people believing they are defending their homeland do better mentally and have access to much greater social supports. The Russian conscripts are likely to fare much worse mentally, especially if they 'lose'.

Violence still breeds violence though and PTSD is horrible and pernicious.

I think this is very much the case. This is purely anecdotal, but I've known a lot of WW1/WW2/Vietnam/Falklands vets. I think the mental wellbeing of the second group was by far the least damaged, even though they had variously been through things like Anzio/D Day/being sunk by U boats and much else. Their view was invariably that it was a war they had to fight, to protect Britain and thus their families and that had not been diminished by time.
HeadPain · 28/02/2022 20:56

Brits with no Ukrainian heritage signing up at London’s Ukrainian embassy to fight for Ukraine.

The news also showed an Iranian guy signing up to fight for Ukraine but for some reason this clip doesn’t show him

ClaudineClare · 28/02/2022 20:56

@TokyoSushi

Agree, since 2016 it's been one thing after another! 😭
It is Bowie's fault IMHO. Everything has gone to shit since he died.
TheWayTheLightFalls · 28/02/2022 20:59

Can we please understand who the majority of the Russian soldiers sent to Ukraine are? Are they professionals with X years of experience vs ordinary and naive conscripts plus 1 year (or even some who are mere conscripts)? Does anyone have an article or further information?

Lurker here, DH is from a Russian military family. Russia conscripts male school leavers. Those going to university can defer, and those going to one of a limited number of universities can graduate and join as officers rather than infantry. This is an oversimplification, but in broad strokes. May help to understand the Army structure a bit.

boatyardblues · 28/02/2022 21:00

[quote dreamingbohemian]@TheSillyMastiff don't apologise for being pedantic!

I thought you'd appreciate this photo : )[/quote]
Volvo estates: loved by 80s antiques dealers because you could lie a whole wardrobe flat in the boot with the seats down. I daresay you could sleep in it too. Indestructible too.

Great threads all. I’ve been dipping in and out over the last 48 hrs.

vera99 · 28/02/2022 21:01

The very brave Moscow Times a Russian independent news source is still online and fiercely reporting the Russian invasion and has an English version.

www.themoscowtimes.com/

Roundeartheratchriatmas · 28/02/2022 21:02

What I’m particularly interested in right about now is how/what Putin is doing.

I’m sure we will never truly know but any indications coming out of Russia that hint at this would be good to know.

I assume he’s absolutely livid but wouldn’t like to guess anything else.

I also wonder what his generals are thinking.

HailAdrian · 28/02/2022 21:03

*It’s madness. Just as one crisis ends 😫

The other thing is I can’t remember how they got such rolling news pre 2016

Brexit filled it for so long, years, pandemic for two years

Hoping we get past this and it’s all talking points re stuff again*

Not forgetting the threat from isis. We're always on edge so I can't begin to imagine what life is like for people who are literally waking up to the sounds of explosions every day.

continu · 28/02/2022 21:06

@MrsTerryPratchett PTSD - age, pre trauma history, MH etc all factors? I hope you are right about the support though. And this is more likely if there is a quick ceasefire.

I am worried about men getting arms who shouldn't have arms, esp if it does turn into a war of attrition.

Igotjelly · 28/02/2022 21:07

He always seems so cold, so little emotion. It’s quite unnerving. Can well believe when Biden looked into his eyes he saw no soul shiver

HeadPain · 28/02/2022 21:07

Putin looked very angry and embarrassed when speaking on latest videos, which is worrying me as he won’t want to look like a loser, so what is he capable of doing to avoid that…