The Invasion Continues...

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Thread two as thread one is complete...

@lllllllllll

And I don’t know why people are suggesting Putin must have dementia. Do you think Hitler had dementia too?

It was widely rumoured last year that Putin had an operation on abdominal cancer and is also suffering early stage Parkinson’s.

May or not be true of course

@MissyB1

I haven’t heard anyone in the media or on here mention Kazakhstan, will Putin want that back? It was a former Soviet state, and borders Russia. Don’t know if it’s connected but there’s been something odd happening there for a few months. My colleague is from there and her mum still lives there. They’ve been under curfews and phone and internet blackouts since December.

Oh no hope she's ok.

I realise I'm naive but how so these curfews and black outs work?

It's so extreme for someone who's grown up 8n a democratic country to even understand how you live like this and what life is truly like.

@timetochangeusername

Just woken up and read that the US had offered to get the Ukraine president out and he has refused. It's made me cry. What an incredible man.

He really is

What a difference compared to our own leader. Can't imagine Boris would go down with the ship if London fell.

@Pernot165

I'm so worried about Zelensky and his family, he has said that his wife and children are still in the capital. They're all targets.

What will happen to them all once captured? Are they likely to be killed?

Yes they will be killed. They will disappear and the Russian propaganda machine will say they ran and are in hiding with their tails between their legs and in a few years time it will be confirmed they were murdered.

I agree the West has been sleeping. We have been warned about Putin for years. yet we ignored Putins chemical weapons attacks on Chechnya. We thought we could tame him or appease him perhaps, and besides the Chechnyans were terrorists according to Putin. We paid onloy lip service to Putin jurdering people on our own soil- Litvinenko. Berezhovsky. Salisbury. More that we do not even know about.

We thought it would all be nice if we played nice. Putin plays by different rules.

And yes- the Russians protesting are incredibly brave. They must know they may never get home to their families again. Putin is a dictator. He does not tolerate dissent. he certainly does not tolerate it from citizens of his own country who say he is wrong.

First post on this thread. Hello.

I just wanted to come and write what a brave man Volodymyr Zelensky is. Honestly seeing one of the videos this morning where he’d survived the night’s onslaught and refused to be airlifted to safety by the US. What an absolute hero and Putin must be furious.

I read a report that they wouldn’t kill him and his family as then his martyrdom would be complete. I suspect the wife and child will be disappeared and Volodymyr Zelensky, will be imprisoned indefinitely which is why he’d rather fight to the death I’m sure.

@NobodysGonnaKnow couldn’t agree more.

Do people think there’s genuinely any way that Ukraine can win this?

I hope I’m wrong but it seems unlikely?

I think the people and the Ukraine president are very brave but also that digging in and refusing to surrender is a suicide mission. They obviously think it’s worth dying for. But logically if the end result is the same is it worth it?

@timetochangeusername

I keep thinking about what I would do. I have no savings but a house, and I don't think I would leave. But then I have a dd, and I've heard some Ukrainians talking about how terrified their children were and their relief of getting out of Kyiv. But for me, I'd have to leave elderly parents I help a lot (I know they wouldn't leave) . And I have a dog, are people taking their pets ? And what happens in Poland? Are they in tents - or does Poland have enough hotels on the border ? The choice must have been agony - too late now of course . I've been watching all the traffic on Google maps- it stopped about mid afternoon, presumably that's when the shelling really ramped up

I’ve been following Polish ( English language) reddit and they are preparing to accept large numbers of refugees. People are putting up details of where pets can be sheltered and that they done normal need for visa ps and paperwork for people and pets is being waived.

[quote bluewanda]This article is depressing - it basically argues that the sanctions we’ve imposed are not much more than an “irritant” to Putin:

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10553185/ANDREW-NEIL-West-impotent-long.html[/quote]
Guardian article saying the same: www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/western-powers-have-realised-russia-is-largely-immune-to-sanctions-ukraine-putin

And giving the reason - basically too much European money and assets are tied up in Russia, and too great a dependence on Russian exports to be actually able to impose meaningful sanctions without hurting ourselves. Whilst it's easy to say we should do it anyway, the reality is there's no political appetite for energy prices shooting up even further.

@sarah13xx

Also without taking away from the fact I’m thinking of the people there 24/7, I can’t stop thinking of the poor animals either. It has been a relief to see that some people have taken their pets with them and Poland have now said they can bring them with them freely but how many people have maybe already left them behind? 😢 What is that dog or cat’s life now? Just sitting in an empty house with no food. It breaks your heart that this is happening right now and we can’t help

😪

Do people think there’s genuinely any way that Ukraine can win this?

I think the only way Ukraine can win this is that they hold off Russia long enough that Putin is taken down internally. Which is... not impossible, I guess?

But beating back the invasion? No.

That's a long way, though, from saying that Putin can hold a hostile country. As we've learned in Afghanistan, sending in troops and sweeping through initially is a long, long way from being able to hold a hostile population long term. Which is partly why this is utter madness.

Just saw former British ambassador to Russia saying that there may be talks between Russian and Ukraine over Ukraine agreeing to be a neutral country. I wonder what this means - surely Putin wants regime change / puppet installed? So that's effectively a takeover anyway ?

I would have thought Zelensky has agreed to get his family out as they will just be used to torture him, he needs them to be safe to survive whatever is coming for him.

I don't think I'll ever forget his videos, incredible

Zelensky is a true leader. He puts most of the 'world power' leaders to shame.

Time to change - The Guardian have published a diary by a young woman -Larisa Kalik- who has fled Kyiv. She writes about a lot of the things you raise and describes her thought processes, fears and the journey to the border. It's worth reading.

My first thought was to compare him with my absolute dickhead ex, but agree Boris and his cronies would be on the first flight out.

@NewModelArmyMayhem18

Zelensky is a true leader. He puts most of the 'world power' leaders to shame.

Indeed. And he started off as a comedian and an actor until the President gig. he has shown and demonstrated honour, resilience and integrity. I admire him more than I can say.

@Gingerwarthog will look that up thank you

@CovidCorvid

Do people think there’s genuinely any way that Ukraine can win this?

I hope I’m wrong but it seems unlikely?

I think the people and the Ukraine president are very brave but also that digging in and refusing to surrender is a suicide mission. They obviously think it’s worth dying for. But logically if the end result is the same is it worth it?

I think it’s interesting that all of Russia’s manoeuvres can be seen via satellite and this will be being conveyed to the Ukrainian soldiers. That’s got to put the Russian army at a disadvantage.

I also think Putin was assuming Ukraine would roll over and possibly even be grateful. I don’t think he wax anticipating it would go down like this.

Indeed. And he started off as a comedian and an actor until the President gig. he has shown and demonstrated honour, resilience and integrity. I admire him more than I can say.

Absolutely. He was just an ordinary person who took on the role and was elected in the place of a Putin puppet. That’s how much the people of Ukraine didn’t want Russian involvement.

The world is watching and we are disgusted. Global revulsion and I hope China is watching and recognising Putin is being seen as a tyrannical despot with blood on his hands. His name is tarred forever in the history books. His legacy alongside Hitler and Stalin.

I do wonder how much intelligence is being fed to the Ukraine army from the USA via satellite and potential drone feeds?

@Furries

Those recent images, of Putin with various politicians sat either end of that stupid table, keep coming back to me.
Such a blatant PR/propaganda snapshot - he KNEW what he was going to do, he knew those meetings were pointless. Yet he thinks he’s shown that he was willing to discuss/negotiate.
Am aware that it’s a simplistic way to look at it, but it’s just such a pre-planned way of basically saying fuck you to everyone

A bit like how the US knew what it was going to do to Iraq regardless of what the UN or absolutely anybody else had to say about it. To quote: “the invasion of Iraq was neither in self-defense against armed attack nor sanctioned by UN Security Council resolution authorizing the use of force by member states and thus constituted the crime of war of aggression”.

US forces alone were directly responsible for the killing of more than 1200 children. Where was the West’s outrage then?

@bluetongue

What possible reasons can he make up to invade Finland and Sweden? Okay Finland has historic ties to Russia (not sure of all the details) but Sweden barely shares a border.

As brave as the 13 soldiers who died defending the island and the soldier who died blowing up the bridge were it’s all so senseless

I doubt he will need one.

Best thing Sweden/Finland can do is join NATO with immediate effect & that is best for us all too.

Putin does not act alone, so whilst he might be delusional, the Generals beneath are not.