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Original poster

The Invasion Continues...

999 replies

Damnloginpopup · 25/02/2022 16:20

Thread two as thread one is complete...

OP posts:
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7
MissyB1 · 25/02/2022 20:46

I haven’t heard anyone in the media or on here mention Kazakhstan, will Putin want that back? It was a former Soviet state, and borders Russia.
Don’t know if it’s connected but there’s been something odd happening there for a few months. My colleague is from there and her mum still lives there. They’ve been under curfews and phone and internet blackouts since December.

WeAreTheHeroes · 25/02/2022 20:53

I was struck this evening by how these are ordinary people just like us who are taking up arms to fight for their country. Trying to square that with being in a European democracy made me cry.

MakeUsACuppa · 25/02/2022 21:09

I am so impressed with the people of Ukraine, Putin thought they'd roll over, they haven't.

I am trying to work out how I can help them, they are inspiring

VerandaSanta · 25/02/2022 21:12

@MakeUsACuppa

I am so impressed with the people of Ukraine, Putin thought they'd roll over, they haven't.

I am trying to work out how I can help them, they are inspiring

Agreed. Especially their president. If this was Boris, he'd have been on the first private jet to some secure bunker 48 hours ago.
Ifitistobesaid · 25/02/2022 21:13

@WeAreTheHeroes I keep thinking that too. Just two days ago they had normal lives, going to the theatre, going for dinner, meeting friends. And now they are in learning how to make Molotov cocktails and fire weapons.

dreamingbohemian · 25/02/2022 21:13

@MissyB1 Russia did send some troops to help stabilise Kazakhstan some weeks ago, when there was a wave of protests and riots against the government. They left when things calmed down.

I think his preference would be a pro-Russian Kazakhstan but without having to actually reclaim and occupy it. Yes they have lots of oil but also lots of internal problems and issues with China. And it's the size of Western Europe, with plenty of anti-Russian people, it would be a nightmare to take it by force.

FatCatThinCat · 25/02/2022 21:16

Fucking hell, he's absolutely fucking insane. I've just seen the news about him now threatening Sweden and Finland with military action.

TheMoth · 25/02/2022 21:17

I think the protests in Russia are interesting. I would have thought, given the iron grip Putin had on Russia, people wouldn't dare protest.

Could this all backfire on him? Could he end up having to manage Ukraine and unrest back in Russia? Modern Russians have access to a world their predecessors were denied.

MissyB1 · 25/02/2022 21:21

@dreamingbohemian aaah… I hadn’t realised how big Kazakhstan is.

SoManyQuestionsHere · 25/02/2022 21:29

I'm not in awe or struck by the heroics of those "taking up arms to defend their country".

I'm not pro-Russia or anti-Ukraine. Not at all. That's not it. Not at all!

It's just: I've been to an actual war zone and I've worked with refugees.

There is no glory in "fighting for your country" - no matter which side you're on.

There are only terrified people, hurt people, injured people, people losing everything. There are only mothers wailing over the dead bodies of their children and families who've been told they should be proud of their "fallen heroes" but who are utterly devastated over the loss of their loved ones.

There are no winners in war. There's loss, heartbreak and devastation.

And, many years down the line, the only thing left is trauma and messed up lives.

WeAreTheHeroes · 25/02/2022 21:33

@SoManyQuestionsHere I think it's desperately sad. I'm not in awe, nor do so think there's any glory in it.

HeechulOppa · 25/02/2022 21:35

I too have been so Impressed by the people of Ukraine, their President seems like a true statesman who cares for his people, already we’re hearing about so many tales of bravery. One chap in his 80s who went to join up. The border guards who said that last ‘fuck you’ before death. The man who blew himself up in order to destroy a bridge to slow down the Russian troops’ access to Kyiv.

I really wish they didn’t have to be brave.

I also feel strongly for the many many many Russians who are horrified at what Putin has done, their bravery at protesting. I can’t imagine how scared they are feeling too.

Last night I saw a video on Reddit of some people who found an abandoned Russian tank, piles of Russian uniforms and clear evidence that the soldiers had just thought ‘fuck this’ and done a runner. So many young men drawn into conflict they don’t want and have little choice in. Desertion, in this situation, is very brave. I hope they are safe too.

Ifitistobesaid · 25/02/2022 21:36

@SoManyQuestionsHere I don’t think anyone is trying to glorify it. I was just struck by how quickly life can change from the unthinkable becoming reality.

ChocolateDigestivesMmmm · 25/02/2022 21:37

I've been following both threads plus the news non stop. My nerves are shot. I'm from a former Soviet country that has almost always been aligned with Russia, except we are also now in the EU and NATO.
For the past 15 years there's been a real divide between people who are pro-Russia/anti NATO and EU versus those who are pro EU/anti Russia. This is reflected in public opinion now, and also the government response. Some parties are pro Russia and others anti. There is a lot of fake news and conspiracy theories flying around. Don't underestimate the anti NATO sentiment in many Eastern European countries, even those who are officially part of NATO. It's naive to think that everyone hates Putin, he has a lot of allies and has been feeding tensions in the Balkans, for example, for many years.
The situation in Ukraine is the most pressing thing at the moment obviously, but this will have consequences for other countries and I fear there will be more conflict to come, either directly or indirectly caused by Russia and the current situation.

CPL593H · 25/02/2022 21:37

@TheMoth

I think the protests in Russia are interesting. I would have thought, given the iron grip Putin had on Russia, people wouldn't dare protest.

Could this all backfire on him? Could he end up having to manage Ukraine and unrest back in Russia? Modern Russians have access to a world their predecessors were denied.

I was saying this earlier. The fact there have been any protests at all has surprised me, but I'm Cold War generation and the world has very much moved on in terms of communications. I'm sure there will be many Russians who agree with what he's done and many that will not put themselves on the line, but it seems some are willing to. Best wishes and hopes for them.
SoManyQuestionsHere · 25/02/2022 21:40

I didn't take it that way.

Admittedly, when I say "there's only devastation" I mean myself, too.

Having seen it happen, I'll admit I find it triggering. There's nothing quite like the utter disregard for human life and dignity like armed conflict. I'll never quite get over it, and I don't think anyone else who's seen it ever truly will.

BonnieBlue88 · 25/02/2022 21:50

The fact there have been any protests at all has surprised me

Why are you surprised? Most Russians do not support this madness. Neither do people in Belarus.

Choccy21 · 25/02/2022 21:58

In the Cold War, I don’t think any billets were fired. It was all flexing muscles and showing off.
Gorbachev and Yeltsin , actually seemed to want peace. I think Reagan played a big part in the end of the Cold War, hence the Berlin Wall coming down in 1989.
Communism ended in Eastern Europe. Germany was two different nations, not all that long ago.

Putin is nuts. Why is the whole world allowing this man to bully us all?

CPL593H · 25/02/2022 22:00

@BonnieBlue88

The fact there have been any protests at all has surprised me

Why are you surprised? Most Russians do not support this madness. Neither do people in Belarus.

Because Putin is not exactly tolerant of opposing opinion, and people who do go out and protest are putting themselves at some considerable risk.
Gingerwarthog · 25/02/2022 22:02

@Choccy21

In the Cold War, I don’t think any billets were fired. It was all flexing muscles and showing off. Gorbachev and Yeltsin , actually seemed to want peace. I think Reagan played a big part in the end of the Cold War, hence the Berlin Wall coming down in 1989. Communism ended in Eastern Europe. Germany was two different nations, not all that long ago.

Putin is nuts. Why is the whole world allowing this man to bully us all?

There were quite a few proxy wars.
SoManyQuestionsHere · 25/02/2022 22:03

In the Cold War, I don’t think any billets were fired.

That's true as far as the main protagonists are concerned - and very much not the case for all the various proxy wars.

Bonheurdupasse · 25/02/2022 22:03

There will be foreign volunteers from Eastern Europe / the Baltic states.

CPL593H · 25/02/2022 22:04

PS I think the Russian people are anything but cowards (as proved over and over again) but they are not exactly in an easy situation themselves. I used to say that Putin wanted to be Tsar. I've changed my view to thinking that he wants to be Stalin.

timetochangeusername · 25/02/2022 22:06

I keep thinking about what I would do. I have no savings but a house, and I don't think I would leave. But then I have a dd, and I've heard some Ukrainians talking about how terrified their children were and their relief of getting out of Kyiv. But for me, I'd have to leave elderly parents I help a lot (I know they wouldn't leave) . And I have a dog, are people taking their pets ? And what happens in Poland? Are they in tents - or does Poland have enough hotels on the border ?
The choice must have been agony - too late now of course .
I've been watching all the traffic on Google maps- it stopped about mid afternoon, presumably that's when the shelling really ramped up

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