The invasion has begun

[Damnloginpopup]

Russia has begun it's invasion of Ukraine. Who knows where this will end.

apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-russia-moscow-kyiv-626a8c5ec22217bacb24ece60fac4fe1

@Kassle

Maybe Putin is dying and wants to take everyone out with him.

I wondered this.

Something seems very very off.

@ImFree2doasiwant

I've just heard that my friends hometown is being bombed. Her parents, siblings, friends. I can't imagine how she feels.

I'm so sorry. It's all just horrendous.

@Kassle

Maybe Putin is dying and wants to take everyone out with him.

That's the scariest scenario I have heard so far

This has been building for years! It’s nothing to do with Putin, per se, but rather how Mother Russia feels NATO and the West have treated them.

en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67828

@JuergenSchwarzwald

Or maybe consider that it’s 77 years on and sweeping statement don’t all apply now

well you can say that from the comfort of your UK (I assume) home

If you were a Ukrainian woman you might not feel so great. Rape is nearly always used as a weapon of war.

I agree that rape is a weapon of war. I disagree with the poster assuming that Russian soldiers in 2022 are specifically more likely to use that tactic by virtue of their nationality and the actions of their grand and great grandfathers. Not sure if she would be comfortable making assertions about Japanese military brutality in 2022, based on WW2.

Putin is an absolute fucking arsehole.
Russian people? Not so much.
British men aren’t exactly slow to rape, are they?

I just don’t think it was a relevant comment.

Surprised at the Putin dying comments.
This has hardly come out of nowhere.
He got his prognosis early enough then to decide to annexe (nice word: let’s say invade) Crimea 8 years ago. And that also didn’t come from nowhere.

They’re bombing Kyiv.

We really just going to stand by and watch Ukraine fall aren’t we ?

[quote Bunnyfuller]This has been building for years! It’s nothing to do with Putin, per se, but rather how Mother Russia feels NATO and the West have treated them.

en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67828[/quote]
I can’t see a way through this. Now reading Putin’s speech

What do you think will happen?

Maybe if West had not seen Russia as a threat and not done the things that aggravated him we wouldn’t be here

Or maybe Ukraine would still show they want to be part of NATO

Mother Russia is repressed bunny Mother Russia no doubt would rather have rights and a democracy than a dictatorship that drags them into unwanted unnecessary wars.

Putin is wholly responsible, and the Kremlin - certainly not every day Russians.

So often in history things happen slowly, slowly, and then all at once. This is a strategy 25 years in the making. Interfering in Brexit and separating the UK from Europe was also part of that strategy. He won't stop with Ukraine, and China will be watching very closely to the Western response when it comes to Taiwan. Honestly this feels like the most (awful) historic day since 9/11. Poor kids growing up in this world right now.

@Kassle

Maybe Putin is dying and wants to take everyone out with him.

He doesn't look well

Thank god we left the EU. I don't even want to think about how much this is gonna cost them.

The Ukrainian government is very corrupt. I wouldn't fight for them! It's the poor civilians I feel sorry for.

@MarshaBradyo But Russia is a threat, and has been for years. We tried to pretend they weren’t when Putin had Alexander Litvinenko - a BRITISH CITIZEN - murdered on British soil and our government did nothing.

We’ve been rolling over for Putin for years and now we’re here.

It’s nothing to do with Putin

OK, that's blown your credibility completely.

Putin has been very good at stoking and capitalising on nationalism and creating external enemies, to distract from his increasing despotism at home. However it's entirely Putin's choice to do this. A different Russian president (eg one who loses elections occasionally and doesn't jail and murder his political opponents) would have behaved very differently.

This is absolutely a Putin thing.

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

Mother Russia is repressed bunny Mother Russia no doubt would rather have rights and a democracy than a dictatorship that drags them into unwanted unnecessary wars.

Putin is wholly responsible, and the Kremlin - certainly not every day Russians.

Yes. It’s a dictatorship run like the Mafia, it really is. People are suppressed if they stand up, especially if they are intelligent and willing to challenge a dictatorship- look at Pussy Riot.

@DenholmElliot

Thank god we left the EU. I don't even want to think about how much this is gonna cost them.

The Ukrainian government is very corrupt. I wouldn't fight for them! It's the poor civilians I feel sorry for.

Countries that work together, trade together and co-operate together are stronger together and far less likely to fight each other.

I wonder what this is going to cost Russia economically and in future relationship building?

@Bunnyfuller. @MarshaBradyo

I’ve just read that although I couldn’t understand it all tbh but it makes a lot of sense. I do not want to support aggressors here however we don’t as a rule have that same level of understanding of Russian political history that is referred to here.

I don’t know - of course I don’t agree with an invasion but my view is that we create these vacuums that get filled by ordinary people who recognise that some fundamental truths are being overlooked - truths that affect them. These vacuums then get defined by nationalist agendas and become militarised, in thought and action.

[quote smorgasbords]@MarshaBradyo But Russia is a threat, and has been for years. We tried to pretend they weren’t when Putin had Alexander Litvinenko - a BRITISH CITIZEN - murdered on British soil and our government did nothing.

We’ve been rolling over for Putin for years and now we’re here.[/quote]
I get what you mean

Just reading his view on NATO and west threat he seems convinced too

Based on past actions of west - were they warranted?

I don’t know the answers but just questioning how we got here and the link below was useful

He doesn't look well

Thank you new that raised the only smile of the day, and is the understatement of the year! He really doesn't look well

The Defence Minister is a tool and God help us if we have to rely on the likes of him

Yes Ben Wallace, in a meeting with some army officers, suggested the British could go in against Russia and defeat them like they did in the 19th century.

He seems to forget that the Tories have been cutting UK defence spending for the last 12 years, even now plan on reducing numbers by a further 10,000.

We have an infantry of just 23k, to be cut to 19k.

Ben Wallace is a wonderful defence secretary and very likely now to be the next PM.

Looking at the news live, Kyiv now being bombed. So anyone hoping he would stop at the east have now had this corrected for them, and pp like socks who said diplomacy is all Russia wants.....sure! It really looks like that from here as we see Ukraine going up in smoke.

This is an all out war now.

I don't think Putin is dying or unwell. He's been planning this for years.
I sometimes think people need to find a reason behind these kind of things. Sadly, sometimes there is no reason. Sometimes it's just because someone is evil / doesn't give a toss about people's lives.

@GallopingHighRoad
I also think (and it is interesting that Putin made the link between the history of Russian Orthodox Christianity across Ukraine and Russia) that the Pussy Riot girls were being led by something or someone - it didn’t seem authentic in some way. Dancing in an Orthodox Church was such a provocative act - who benefitted from that?

Putin has, to my knowledge, always been a big supporter of the Church there - a church that is part of the larger Eastern schism - I think that he views that as more significant and we don’t realise this.

@Keepyourheadscrewedon

Ben Wallace is a wonderful defence secretary and very likely now to be the next PM.

Looking at the news live, Kyiv now being bombed. So anyone hoping he would stop at the east have now had this corrected for them, and pp like socks who said diplomacy is all Russia wants.....sure! It really looks like that from here as we see Ukraine going up in smoke.

This is an all out war now.

We don't have to get involved, do we?