What a repulsive man John Barrowman is

[Tequilabeliever]

John Barrowman, indecent exposer extraordinaire has been on tv this morning talking about how it’s not sexual harassment to lob your knob out in front of your colleagues and everyone had a great time and thought it was hilarious whilst he was doing it.

How tone deaf can one man be. Even given it was over ten years ago, has it really ever been ok to behave in that way, anywhere, let alone in a workplace.

I’d love to hear from the women who were present when this was happening. I believe he actually put his penis on the shoulder of one woman. The man should have been arrested but no, he’s on tv talking about how painful it’s been for him, for this to have been brought to the attention of the public.

I think the fact that all but 2 found it amusing says this was not done maliciously.

That is such a dishonest thing to say.

2 people either felt safe enough in their careers and friendships or decided both could go to hell, to complain.

Most people don't complain, because they fear the consequences. That doesn't mean they find flashing amusing or they don't mind, or they welcome it. It just means that as is the norm, they didn't complain.

It's a massive deal to make a formal complaint about anyone, even where popularity and power differentials are not an issue.

The assumption should be that all non complainants do not welcome unacceptable behaviour unless they actively say they do, because the social and psychological barriers to actually complaining are so high that the default is for most people to put up with unacceptable behaviour and wait for it to stop.

Many people don’t complain about sexual harassment, especially about celebrities, doesn’t mean it is acceptable

Can't abide the creep. He's just a flasher.

@Kimilybob

Weve all but lost sense of humour....context and intent mean nothing anymore....

I think the fact that all but 2 found it amusing says this was not done maliciously.

So as long as no malice there at the end of the day its a penis....i dont know when it became so offensive.

Ahhh so it was a non malicious penis and you'd know because you were there and subject to this ...?

It's irrelevant what the intent was ... a decent man doesn't do this.

@GreenTeaPingPong

As far as I know he hasn't been charged or prosecuted for sexual assault or similar. Yes it's distasteful behaviour, and he should apologise, but everyone talking about 'in the workplace' in this mealy mouthed way as if he was flashing in an insurance office are a bit misguided. Actors pull all kinds of pranks on each other - haven't you heard the stories on Graham Norton? It wasn't targeting any one person.

But for his colleagues if was the work place.

And no charge/prosecution means bugger all.

No one was harmed by it

///:

So, public placed where it's coolio to get your cock out for a wave -

Mmm. Bit stuck here, ideas folks?

@VioletLemon

Commonly known as "Lulu syndrome" in Scotland. His Scottish accent is contrived. Think he was a teen when moved to Canada. He reinvented himself some years ago, adopting Tom Cruises facial expressions and had some work done on his look.

Unfortunately this made him worse.

Hahaha I was just about to mention Lulu!

@Kimilybob

A lot of things border innappropriate. Thats often what makes it so funny. No ones knows how this took place so to get all uptight and then complain on behalf of others because it suits their agender is just typical. No one was harmed by it and whether it was approproate or not is debatable.

I had the pleasure of sitting in on a police interview when a girl in our school had been flashed. Her embarrassment, upset and fear were evident and not in the slightest debatable. The police were so kind and tried hard to make it easy for the girl to give her account of what happened . They clearly found the flasher's behaviour inappopriate - no debate about it.I truly cannot understand why any could be classed as appropriate.instance of a man exposing himself

@Kimilybob

As i said appropriation will differ. In this case 2 outliers may have found it inappropriate and been offended by the penis. Others werent....

Damn those pesky “outliers”.

I’m guessing that the overall lesson for women is that it’s rude to stare/look - just avert your gaze and stop pearl-clutching (can’t imagine where I’ve heard that before).

@Kimilybob

Weve all but lost sense of humour....context and intent mean nothing anymore....

I think the fact that all but 2 found it amusing says this was not done maliciously.

So as long as no malice there at the end of the day its a penis....i dont know when it became so offensive.

If you’re a woman @Kimilybob shame on you and I hope you don’t have daughters. Or sons for that matter with an attitude like that.

By law getting your penis is a criminal offence. Don’t know know what planet you live on but you need to give your head a wobble.

Do you have a husband. Would you think it was ok for him to get his penis out and put it on a woman’s shoulder.

I’m guessing that the overall lesson for women is that it’s rude to stare/look - just avert your gaze and stop pearl-clutching
(can’t imagine where I’ve heard that before)

Oooh I guess it was wispa? No no hang on it was oh yes everywhere.

Some of the attitudes on this thread are apalling.
My DD and many of her friends work in the performing arts. Do people seriously believe that they are not entitled to the same protection and respect as women who work in offices?
That's a rhetorical question of course as we know full well how little regard many people have for performers and the associated professions - there was a thread on here recently in which it was suggested they are unreasonable to expect to be paid for instance - but the idea that they should be tolerant of sexual harrassment and criminal offences is taking things to another level.

@Terfydactyl

I’m guessing that the overall lesson for women is that it’s rude to stare/look - just avert your gaze and stop pearl-clutching (can’t imagine where I’ve heard that before)

Oooh I guess it was wispa? No no hang on it was oh yes everywhere.

Yes and yes. Bloody depressing isn’t it.

As an aside, I love your username every time I see it. Need to hunt down some Dino-themed t shirts for the summer!

I think men who expose themselves are a bit pathetic so I don't get the power thing, I think it is behaving like a 3 or 4 year old so not big not clever and would just tell them to put it away.

When touching comes into it (like putting it on someone's shoulder) it is a different matter.

Hadn’t the murderer of Sarah Everard been caught exposing themselves to other women before going on to kill her. I would be careful confronting anyone who displayed such behaviour @ancientgran

I'd also imagine from your username ancientgran that you are not a young woman? Neither am I, and in my later working years would probably have been fairly confident about challenging a man who behaved like this in the workplace as I was fairly senior then and past being intimidated. (Not in the street or anything though - as toomuchlaundry suggests, I'd think that was dangerous.)
But had say a Consultant exposed himself to me when I was a medical student or junior doctor, would I have challenged him then? No. In all honesty I probably wouldn't. I would have been too scared to , as I would have known that as an inconsequential and easily replaced female making a challenge to a senior permanent male member of staff the probability of being taken seriously would have been pretty much zero. And if anyone was punished, it would be me.
That is what the power imbalance is, and that is exactly the position that the other staff will have found themselves in when Barrowman decided to sexually harrass them. They might have said nothing, or even pretended they found it funny but I doubt very much it was really true. It was self preservation. Can you seriously imagine a newly graduated member of the ensemble challenging the world famous star of a show and still having a job next day? Or indeed being able to get another one somewhere else once word got around. People like Barrowman understand this so think they are untouchable. The people who actually complained are very brave and almost certainly only the tip of the iceberg. Just telling him to put it away would be unlikely to achieve anything except losing them their job, and he well knows it.

@AgeingDoc No I'm not young but maybe not typical. I grew up in what was the vice area of the city I was born in. From an early age I knew certain rules and followed them, walk with purpose, don't make eye contact with passing men, if a man bothers you (maybe exposes himself) you loudly tell them to stop.

I worked in a male dominated environment when I was younger, I was young, female and a civvie in a police station. I had no hesitation in loudly and clearly telling men to stop e.g. when I got cornered in the stationery cupboard. I never had a problem with it, senior officers (mostly male back then) certainly wouldn't have punished me.

A hospital doesn't sound like a nice place to work but certainly where I worked there would be no question of who was in trouble and it wouldn't have been me.

@AgeingDoc

I'd also imagine from your username ancientgran that you are not a young woman? Neither am I, and in my later working years would probably have been fairly confident about challenging a man who behaved like this in the workplace as I was fairly senior then and past being intimidated. (Not in the street or anything though - as toomuchlaundry suggests, I'd think that was dangerous.) But had say a Consultant exposed himself to me when I was a medical student or junior doctor, would I have challenged him then? No. In all honesty I probably wouldn't. I would have been too scared to , as I would have known that as an inconsequential and easily replaced female making a challenge to a senior permanent male member of staff the probability of being taken seriously would have been pretty much zero. And if anyone was punished, it would be me. That is what the power imbalance is, and that is exactly the position that the other staff will have found themselves in when Barrowman decided to sexually harrass them. They might have said nothing, or even pretended they found it funny but I doubt very much it was really true. It was self preservation. Can you seriously imagine a newly graduated member of the ensemble challenging the world famous star of a show and still having a job next day? Or indeed being able to get another one somewhere else once word got around. People like Barrowman understand this so think they are untouchable. The people who actually complained are very brave and almost certainly only the tip of the iceberg. Just telling him to put it away would be unlikely to achieve anything except losing them their job, and he well knows it.

THIS ^

Psychologically and economically Barrowman had huge power, and exploited it.

@AgeingDoc this old bag completely agrees with you. I worked with plenty of people like Barrowman. It would have been career suicide to have stood up to them. That didn't make me timid, just realistic.

Humiliating junior colleagues is a power play for many senior staff and not primarily for sexual motives even if someone uses his exposed penis to do it. I don't understand why other people don't understand that. They are either extraordinarily lucky not to have encountered it or possessed of a different concept of realism to me.

I am glad your no nonsense approach worked for you @ancientgran.

It is sad that so many people worked for such vile employers. I can't say working for the police was like working in a convent but I can't imagine any senior officer I worked for, I'm thinking of anyone from a sergeant to a chief superintendent, would have been anything but supportive of a woman who was being harassed. Having said that I never heard of anything like indecent exposure, more sexist remarks which would get shot down and the occasion when I was propositioned in the stationery cupboard but I dealt with that and he apologised.

Unfortunately back then I think racism was a bigger problem and I don't think black officers got the backing they should have on many occasions.

I think your experience is very unusual ancientgran. Most women I know, whatever sector they work in, wouldn't have that kind of confidence to challenge senior males, and as limitedperiodonly says, that is born from realism, not timidity. Goodness, my friends and I got ourselves into enough trouble when in the early 90s we started defying the dress code of a hospital that still stated "lady medical staff will not wear trousers". We picked our battles! I think things have improved a lot since then, but there is still a very long way to go.
And the performing arts are particularly archaic in many ways. The number of appropriately talented and qualified people vs the number of jobs means that performers are extremely easy to replace which leaves them with very little power. As an example, my DD once complained about something relatively minor when she was in a fairly small touring show and at the next rehearsal she was demoted from a role where she was on the front row of a group and had a small solo to the back row for the rest of the run. There was no real artistic reason for that,no prior dissatisfaction with her performance, it was clearly just a warning shot to make it obvious to her where she stood and who held the power. Do you want this job? Well keep quiet then.
If a junior cast member, or an electrician or similar stood up to an international star of a show they would be out on their ear I can almost guarantee it. They can be replaced overnight, but the star can't. I can well believe that many people wanted to complain about Barrowman's behaviour but they will have worked incredibly hard to get their roles - to get into training us hard enough, never mind work of any kind - and they don't want to throw it all away. It's a brutal, toxic world and I am really glad my DD has taken another direction now.
I am genuinely pleased that there are women like you who have worked in supportive environments and let's hope your experience becomes more common, but right now, it's still unusual. "Just tell him to put it away" simply wouldn't have worked I'm afraid, and the posters who have suggested that the majority of the rest of the cast and staff mustn't have minded or they would have said something really have no idea of the situation. Most people who work in the arts aren't that different to the rest of us. They don't have intrinsically different senses of humour, ideas about common decency or moral compasses to the people behind desks in insurance offices and they should get the same respect and protection as any other worker.

I can't imagine any senior officer I worked for, I'm thinking of anyone from a sergeant to a chief superintendent, would have been anything but supportive of a woman who was being harassed.

I couldn't imagine that my trendy, forward looking company which regularly posts woke platitudes in Linkedin, would discriminate against women for having babies but they did.

Perhaps you had to experience something before really knowing how an official complaint would be handled.

@ScreamingBeans

I can't imagine any senior officer I worked for, I'm thinking of anyone from a sergeant to a chief superintendent, would have been anything but supportive of a woman who was being harassed.

I couldn't imagine that my trendy, forward looking company which regularly posts woke platitudes in Linkedin, would discriminate against women for having babies but they did.

Perhaps you had to experience something before really knowing how an official complaint would be handled.

I know how they handled official complaints as the woman I shared an office with made one. She had no issues after making the complaint and the man involved was dealt with.

I had two babies while working there and again didn't suffer any discrimination, had 4 promotions and was sponsored for 4 years day release with all my fees and books paid for and paid study leave in the run up to exams. One of my children had two surgeries while I worked there and I couldn't have had more support.

Maybe bad employers need to be outed.

Why does he continue to advertise he acted like: a) a perve or b) a two yr old?

Idiots always polish the loudest trumpet that's why.