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Original poster

I was out with a group of middle aged men last night

163 replies

DetailMouse · 20/02/2022 14:49

And I had a nice evening. We went to see a band in a pub and just by a fluke of who was/wasn't able to make it, I ended up being the only woman.

The youngest was 49 up to 57, I'm at the lower end. One single the rest either married or living with a partner. Two I've known since school although seen little of them in recent years, two I know through a hobby and two I didn't know at all until yesterday.

We all had a lot to drink, they were good company, but not overly charming (which I hate) they are all (I realised afterwards) in surprisingly good shape, not a beer belly between them, especially considering the beer that was consumed last night Grin and had made an effort to be pub smart for a Saturday night.

No one did or said anything inappropriate and no one even came close to making any kind of move on me.

There's no point to the post, except that this is my experience of most men. Have I lead some sort of charmed life or is the picture often painted on here reality for the majority?

OP posts:
ChaToilLeam · 20/02/2022 15:38

I know lots of lovely men. I have lots of male friends, they call out sexism and behave like decent human beings. That doesn’t negate all the encounters I have had with harassers, sexist shits, arrogant patronizing bastards, etc.

Georgeskitchen · 20/02/2022 15:38

Yes definitely agree. Been out with female friends to various pubs, ended up sharing a table with 2 or 3 middle aged chaps, had a laugh and friendly conversation. No inappropriate behaviour even after a few drinks 😁

Juststopit · 20/02/2022 15:39

You could be describing my ex and his colleagues - when out in public. Behind closed doors my ex was an abusive controlling bully.

Bellalastrasse · 20/02/2022 15:40

But actually I agree with the OPs point that most men aren’t like that (certainly that I know). Just makes me wonder who are these bad men if not decent men when the drink/drugs/ pressure has got too much. I think some are genuinely decent but have tipped over because of circumstances and the. Some truly disrespect/ hate women. I don’t get the sense that so ma y men hate women overall - it’s a minority.

picklemewalnuts · 20/02/2022 15:41

I'd guess that for whatever reason these men see you- and label you- as a person in your own right. So they behave decently.

For some reason, some women don't get afforded that status- they are the wife's friend, or the mate's ex, or something- and so get objectified, for what they may have to offer.

The same men do not behave the same way in all situations.

MeaCuppa · 20/02/2022 15:42

@Lesperance

You posted it, but it's not very interesting is it? You only posted it because you have read other types of messages on here where men don't come over so well. That's because people don't usually post to write about what is normal and not bothering them. It doesn't mean there are not people up and down the country who regularly have the experience you have, it just means they have no reason to post about it on mumsnet.
Yes. This.
Lesperance · 20/02/2022 15:44

@Bellalastrasse

But actually I agree with the OPs point that most men aren’t like that (certainly that I know). Just makes me wonder who are these bad men if not decent men when the drink/drugs/ pressure has got too much. I think some are genuinely decent but have tipped over because of circumstances and the. Some truly disrespect/ hate women. I don’t get the sense that so ma y men hate women overall - it’s a minority.
I don't think that is the poster's point. I think her point is that mumsnet is essentially promoting something that is false, because that is her experience. Nice bit of victim blaming there. It's like saying there are lots of murders in the papers, but I don't know anybody who has been murdered, ergo, the papers are wrong.
LorelaiDeservedBetter · 20/02/2022 15:44

Ironically, two men I've worked with have been caught up in public scandals. One was verbally indiscreet. The other committed a sexual assault.
Guess which one was the nicest, sweetest, kindest person in work and at work events and in the pub with us all? Yy the one who sexually assaulted someone.
Strangely enough the verbally indiscreet one, was also verbally indiscreet at work. Their scandal seemed completely in keeping with their personality.

ScreamingBeans · 20/02/2022 15:46

That's why I get irritated by people who say "well what did she expect?" when someone gets raped by a friend, colleague or member of a group they're with.

The question implies that women should expect men to be rapists, that being a rapist is the default setting for men and if women expect men not to be, then that's our fault for having too high an expectation.

When actually, most men aren't rapists and those who are, choose to be. Then they hide behind the idea that they can't be blamed for taking advantage of a situation where they can rape. And most people are still letting them hide.

Original poster
DetailMouse · 20/02/2022 15:47

I didn't have a point. As I said I was interested I whether I've been particularly lucky or whether my experience is more common than it setimes seems.

I don't feel unsafe in the company of men and my life would be poorer for it if I did.

OP posts:
SofiaSoFar · 20/02/2022 15:47

Im betting the majority of them have procured the use of a womans body by financial means, be that going to a lap dancing bar or using an escort.

Bollocks.

Lesperance · 20/02/2022 15:50

@DetailMouse

I didn't have a point. As I said I was interested I whether I've been particularly lucky or whether my experience is more common than it setimes seems.

I don't feel unsafe in the company of men and my life would be poorer for it if I did.

But you are comparing your life to the prism of mumsnet. You are labeling your experience as uncommon on the grounds that mumsnet reflects society, but it distorts it, with good reason, because nobody usually posts to say nothing happened.
Original poster
DetailMouse · 20/02/2022 15:53

Yes and that's what I was asking about @Lesperance

OP posts:
Bellalastrasse · 20/02/2022 15:55

I used to hang out with two groups of people - one mostly men and their partners, the other mostly women and single men.

I was comfort in both groups as I thought I was liked for being me and felt safe. I got on with everyone. I then lost a lot of weight (ironically due to illness) and the dynamics of both groups really changed. I got the feeling from some of the guys that I was someone they were now interested in as I looked different and they completely changed towards me. I actually felt very uncomfortable. I also became a threat to some of the women who dropped me as soon as.

I miss my old friends. It’s made me very wary that the veneer of equality and freedom are held together by how well we can manage those dynamics when they appear. But what frightens me most is that whether we acknowledge them or not, they are always there.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 20/02/2022 15:55

All men in my life are lovely, really lovely. I feel like my DD, nieces and other young women are in safe hands around them.

I was sexually assaulted by a friend of my parents at 11, coerced into sex at 16 by a guy 8 years older than me then assaulted by his friend the same night. I've seen the way men look at my DD, she's only 13.

There are so many lovely men. My experience and that of so many women is there are still too many bad ones.

Come to think of it this thread has a whiff of "all the men I know are good so those nasty feminists must be exaggerating " about it ...

SallyWD · 20/02/2022 15:56

Most of the men I know are just nice, kind guys.

Blue4YOU · 20/02/2022 15:56

Sigh. Yes we know not all men are the same, they aren’t all Donald Trump etc etc.
I’ve had plenty of nice times socially with men.
I’ve also been raped by one of them and sexually assaulted by someone in their workplace.
Not to mention rude comments etc etc.

MeaCuppa · 20/02/2022 15:57

Come to think of it this thread has a whiff of "all the men I know are good so those nasty feminists must be exaggerating " about it ...

Doesn’t it just.

Lesperance · 20/02/2022 15:57

@DetailMouse

Yes and that's what I was asking about *@Lesperance*
But then you don't ask mumsnet, surely? You ask people outside of mumsnet.
LorelaiDeservedBetter · 20/02/2022 15:58

None of this is complicated. It's disingenuous bullshit to imply it is.

Statistics show men are most likely to commit crimes of violence against women and girls. And the men who commit the crimes, don't walk about with a neon sign saying it's them.

And the funny thing is, even if they did walk around with a neon sign - look at the high profile cases of men in the entertainment industry who have been convicted of abuse - people still fall over themselves to excuse them. So a neon sign wouldn't make a difference to some people because men are more important than women. Some people would rather cling desperately to their delusions than face that reality.

And yy NAMALT - I have brothers and a DH and DS - I love them all dearly. I'm not fucking stupid enough to believe I know what their behaviour is like in all circumstances.

Sometimes I think it's quite sweet that an adult woman can make it through life without being touched by male violence and crime. Unbelievable but sweet. To not know anyone who has been sexually assaulted by their father. To not know anyone who has been murdered by a male stranger. To not know anyone who has been followed by a male or stalked by one. You'd have to live in a seriously small privileged bubble for that to be your experience of life.

MistyFrequencies · 20/02/2022 15:58

@LorelaiDeservedBetter said it best.

Original poster
DetailMouse · 20/02/2022 15:58

Or the people who, asyou say, haven't posted about it previously?

OP posts:
adultchildofalcoholicparents · 20/02/2022 15:58

@SallyWD

Most of the men I know are just nice, kind guys.
When they're with you?

Given the stigma of bad relationships, financial problems, addictions etc. are you confident that this is true of them in most meaningful contexts?

Loopytiles · 20/02/2022 16:00

If you’re genuinely interested in understanding the prevalence in the UK of DC and women experiencing unpleasant treatment, harassment by men - or worse - your post isn’t a good way to go about it.

Bellalastrasse · 20/02/2022 16:01

@Lesperance. Yes, I get that - I just wrote poorly,sorry.

So if people post on mumsnet it’s because people without problems don’t publish so we are getting a distorted view? Just like the news is predominately negative and doesn’t reflect the real world as that doesn’t sell?

I agree with this but I do think it’s a much more fragile layer that keeps things decent then we realise. In my experience, one woman’s great guy could be another woman’s creepy office worker. But then that’s true for everything, is included. How many times have we consoled a friend’s behaviour that from a man’s perspective may seem bizarre.?

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