DH considering becoming a doctor

[pinkgingham]

Posting here in case anyone has experience/advice they can share.

DH is 37 and in a fairly good career type role but it doesn't motivate him (it could uncharitably be called a bullshit job).

He wanted to study medicine at uni but instead did politics (got some dodgy career advice at school and was the first in his family to go uni).

He's wanted to retrain for many years but it didn't make sense whilst we were trying to buy a house, have kids etc.

He's now considering it properly for the first time. Unfortunately he has had to spend a lot of time in hospital recently due to serious illness in his family and it's really brought home to him that what the medical staff do is so meaningful, which is a direct contrast to his job (in his view).

We've worked out that we could afford to live on my salary for a few years if needed whilst he was studying, I appreciate that the hours are crazy and sometimes unpredictable and that it would put a lot more of the childcare burden on me. I still think it's worth it though as he has a lot of years left to work and you only get one life and it's a long time to waste in a job you think is meaningless. He would love to do it but is always more cautious than me.

Is this totally mad? Do people actually do this at 37? What do we need to consider?

God no!! Run for the hills.
DH was a Dr, quit to become a teacher after medicine almost cost him his sanity. He absolutely loves his teaching role and the pay is not that different to his medical role.
His school are finding fewer and fewer pupils are applying for medicine now, the smart ones want to study business, finance or software engineering. There are always a few that want to do it for the social status rather then to genuinely help people, these are easily identified by asking them what they are going to study if they dont get into medical school and its often something like management.,,never a "lesser" HCP role.
Our DS got the grades for medicine but chose nursing. He saw what medicine did to his father (on the rare occasions he even saw his father) and didnt want that life.

If he was 37 and had no children I would say absolutely go for it.

But we have to consider the whole situation we are in.
If he starts training now be prepared for raising your children single handedly. Money will be tight as a student and the junior years will be gruelling- he will not be around much as a parent.

So in short you will be sacrificing 10 years of your life to support him financially and in terms of childcare. Your own career will be compromised as a result of the unbalanced load of burdens.

For his dreams?

And what if in 10 years he leaves you after you bearing the weights while he gets to fly his rocket ship?

He is too old, he has obligations- he is asking too much of you- and I think being unfair to even consider it.

There are many jobs in the medical sector, support roles, even fundraising if he has a desire to help.
Working for a charity which raises money to vaccinate children in poor areas of the world for instance- or working to help bring clean drinking water to deprived areas, there are many ways to improve the lives and health of others without being a doctor.

I think he has a case of the Dr Kildares.

As a balance to the above post - DH is a doctor, and so are many of our friends - they are all absolutely fine. DH in particular loves his job.

Of course there is stress, but that is part of the challenge.

That was to @StScholastica

A lot of people mentioning becoming a consultant as some sort of 'end game' after years of training.

I can say from direct personal experience the move from trainee to consultant is more like a change of career than any of the job changes during training. It's a whole new mindset with a whole new set of skills and training to do once you're in post, I reckon a minimum of 3-5 years to skill up once you're a consultant depending on the speciality...

I'd be another saying really think very, very hard about this. He'd be paying off student loan forever, would be approaching retirement once he had really established a consultant practice, and the job in 10-15 years might be very different to what it is now - the NHS may have collapsed, established consultants abandoned what is left to take up private practice and incoming new consultants left to staff disastrously underfunded public clinics....

I’m not a doctor but a nurse, who has worked with many doctors. The FY1 and FY2 years seem very tough, long hours, doing lots of the same often repetitive tasks (Cannulas, bloods, discharges, lots of paperwork). Junior doctors often stay late and have erratic breaks. However if he can get through them (and be ok with not seeing the kids that much for a while etc) then he should be fine but it’s a long, long road to becoming a consultant and seems to have lots of hoops to jump through.

I know someone who was 35 and wanted to do medicine but did the physician associate MSc instead. Takes 2 years, pays a band 7 and does many of the same jobs as a doctor.

I also know some nurses that have gone on to study medicine, and who were/ will be in their 30s when they finished it. For them it’s 100% worth it.

The other thing to consider is whether he needs to do A Level chemistry / biology again. I know some people who had to as having ‘arts’ degrees.

He's right. You only have one life.
Absolutely go for it.
If it doesn't work out then it doesn't but you never know unless you try.

And what do you want to do for next 10 years? Do you not have any ambitions or things you want to do.

I haven't had time to RTFT, but please, both of you, have a thorough read of r/JuniorDoctorsUK on Reddit before making a final decision.

I think post graduate medicine has a one in ten chance of getting in, and that's if you apply strategically to Universities where you have a good chance of getting in, ie not just your local one.

He's missed the application for this years entry which was 15th October.

If he's really interested then doing some background reading as suggested by a PP is good, things like This Is Going To Hurt and Do No Harm. Volunteer lots, they will be looking for lots of experience and what you've learned from it and start looking at the UCAT test. Some students do start practicing for it in January.

There's a medicine 2023 thread going in Higher Education abs they're already be ones going in TSR which should be helpful.

@SingToTheSky

A lot of people have mentioned Adam Kay - is the programme worth watching for someone not wanting a medicine career? Just as something interesting to watch I mean.

It's not bad, but quite distressing.

@lemondrop21

He's right. You only have one life. Absolutely go for it. If it doesn't work out then it doesn't but you never know unless you try.

That's true but once you have a spouse and children, you have their lives to consider too. They also have only life each.

I know someone who was 35 and wanted to do medicine but did the physician associate MSc instead. Takes 2 years, pays a band 7 and does many of the same jobs as a doctor.

That’s certainly worth considering given that the NHS is devolving medical tasks more and more - as with nurse practitioners.

Another line to consider is the management side.

He should go for it. Yes it'll be hard but may be worth it in the long run.

I think he'll always regret not giving it a shot.

Oh wow I'm all for going for your dreams! However the dreams aren't always what they're cracked up to be a lot of the time with these sort of "helping people jobs" (speaking as an ex social worker).

As others have said placements could be anywhere.

If he is interested in a caring role within health how about nursing or paramedic? less time at uni and wouldn't be placed miles away from home. I know the wages aren't as high but if your on a good salary would it not suffice?

I know a couple of people who've done this.
You only get one life and we should all pursue our dreams.

However, I'd strongly encourage him to have frank conversations with some doctors about the downsides; it's a damn hard job and you wouldn't want to qualify in your forties only to find it's not really for you. Burn out is rife and the hours are incredibly long initially.

@spotcheck

got some dodgy career advice at school and was the first in his family to go uni

Jesus..... everyone likes to blame someone for the decisions they didn't make.

Have you been a 16/17 year old in a family with no history of tertiary education and in a school where you were given the wrong careers advice @spotcheck ?

I have and I managed to battle against it to achieve my career goals, but I can absolutely understand how easy it is to take the (wrong) advice that informed adults in positions of power are giving you.

What about that is so difficult for you to understand?

What does he do now?
Could he transfer to a healthcare equivalent role, e.g healthcare manager, clinical governance (investigating incidents, risk management, complaints) You can still make a big difference in various support and management roles and some roles work very closely with clinical teams.

@TatianaBis

I know someone who was 35 and wanted to do medicine but did the physician associate MSc instead. Takes 2 years, pays a band 7 and does many of the same jobs as a doctor.

That’s certainly worth considering given that the NHS is devolving medical tasks more and more - as with nurse practitioners.

Another line to consider is the management side.

You need a life sciences degree and health care experience to do this. Not sure if the OP's husbands first degree would be relevant?

I don't want to be negative but I think you need to be realistic about what you are taking on. It will realistically mean at least six years of you being the only breadwinner and concurrently at least ten years of you carrying the load with childcare. Are you prepared to do that? I am a similar age to you and your DH and I love him dearly but I wouldn't do it, nor would I judge anyone else who took the same decision.

Someone on my course was 42 when we started, she is happily settled as a GP now.

The biggest obstacle is finances while he is studying so he needs to look into that carefully.

The training programmes to be a consultant are long and gruelling but you don’t have to be a consultant. Many doctors work in SAS (non-consultant) roles where you can have a better work-life balance.

Oh, he should 100% do it and you sound like a great wife supporting him!!

Lots of good points above and there are certainly plenty of things to consider.

An additional point is that consultant/GP are not the only endpoints there are also jobs that are not training posts leading to consultant that are much more 9-5ish after the FY1 and 2 years. variously called staff grades, specialty doctors, medical officers, clinical fellows. These are locally employed posts with set hours and duties some have career progression, some don't.
Individual career planning after qualification is very important if you have dependents.

best wishes to your husband and you as you make your decisions.

For what it's worth I still love my job despite the pressures and the underfunding and stresses. I'm a geriatrician,

What are your dreams OP?

I would also require a bit of protection for your own financial security, OP. If you fund his way through medical school at this late date, I would want a written commitment to pay a chunk of it back to you in the event you two split. It's not uncommon.