DH considering becoming a doctor

[pinkgingham]

Posting here in case anyone has experience/advice they can share.

DH is 37 and in a fairly good career type role but it doesn't motivate him (it could uncharitably be called a bullshit job).

He wanted to study medicine at uni but instead did politics (got some dodgy career advice at school and was the first in his family to go uni).

He's wanted to retrain for many years but it didn't make sense whilst we were trying to buy a house, have kids etc.

He's now considering it properly for the first time. Unfortunately he has had to spend a lot of time in hospital recently due to serious illness in his family and it's really brought home to him that what the medical staff do is so meaningful, which is a direct contrast to his job (in his view).

We've worked out that we could afford to live on my salary for a few years if needed whilst he was studying, I appreciate that the hours are crazy and sometimes unpredictable and that it would put a lot more of the childcare burden on me. I still think it's worth it though as he has a lot of years left to work and you only get one life and it's a long time to waste in a job you think is meaningless. He would love to do it but is always more cautious than me.

Is this totally mad? Do people actually do this at 37? What do we need to consider?

I’m a bit surprised at some posters claiming that you could be sent to the ends of the country and no guarantee of where you get your jobs. Not entirely true.

When you apply to foundation training in your final year at med school, there are several categories called special circumstances that allow you to “pre-allocate” yourself to a specific deanery for a number of reasons I.e. significant care responsibilities, if you are a parents and need to stay in the area for childcare or unique circumstances etc.

You get confirmation from the teaching deanery that your application has been approved or denied a few months after. However, it is up to you to ensure you pass all your exams and get a decent EPM (educational performance measure) and SJT score (situational judgement test). If you are applying to a competitive deanery such as south Thames, the cut off for last years cohort was around 80-85 points out of 100. If you are living up north near Durham for example, the cut off for the northern deanery was around 71ish.
Also if your DH has no interest in doing hospital med but fancies becoming a GP, then it’s approx 5 years training post med school to become fully qualified (2 years Foundation, 3 GP training), again depending on certain areas giving training incentives for lack of specialities etc.
Its not easy, but doable. I’m in my final year with a DC, a DH and another DC on the way.
Hard slog but worth it, best of luck! X

I’m a dr. I’ve never once looked at any id the professions being touted here as good alternatives and though ‘wish I was doing that’.

If you really want to be a dr there’s no other job that will fill that. Nothing. So yeah if that’s him - absolutely go for it.

If he just wants something more meaningful than his current work there are heaps of options.

@Scrunchies

I haven’t read thru the thread but DONT DO IT

I’m a GP, altho I’m on a career break post maternity at the moment. I absolutely hate my job, the environment, and the nhs. I could list a million reasons why it sucks and is a bad idea. Medicine isn’t a calling anymore, it’s a shit show where staff are continually abused and the whole system is fucked. Oh do I sound bitter and burnt out? Yup.

This I'm senior, very well regarded, excellent patient & colleague feedback etc but the (emotional, personal) price I've paid is way too high. The NHS is an appalling employer.

Go for it. I was given crap advice at school and was the first to go to uni as well. Haven't done anything with it. I wanted to be a midwife, but was told by a teacher I was too young at 17 to pursue this at university. I'm now 42. I still want to do some form of nursing and figure the way this country is going, we could be working til we are in our late 70s. That's a lot of time to be working in a job with no satisfaction. I wish him lots of luck. You only regret what you do not try.

Oh fuck no. I think you will hate it. I could be projecting here as my husband is at uni doing a gruelling degree. He is younger and he will earn a lot afterwards. Probably as soon as he finishes if things continue as they are but I am literally counting down the days til he finishes. I hate it and feel like we get very little family time and nothing even to show for it. I want another child but we can't consider it in our current circumstances. It's such a big commitment. Your husband will need to study so much and his placements too of course. He will barely be around, not to mention your vastly reduced household income then he will earn peanuts for a few years afterwards. Of course I'm being very negative but we are probably not as financially secure as you. Boils down to whether you are OK with all the above which you seem to be, but it might be different once you are living the reality.

It can be done but it will be hard. Does he have any science A-levels or will he need to do some kind of an access course. That adds on time before he can even apply. Then he needs work experience and if it can be over a longer term, show regular commitment perhaps volunteering at a hospital that would be helpful. You'd need to consider which medical schools are near where you live and would you up and move if he gets into one a bit further away? How would that impact your job, kids schooling, family support?

Once training is done and he graduates then he will be working long shifts, often short-staffed, never finishing on time, not reliable for you. His first place depends on his overall ranking and my brother did well to get one in his preferred area but not everyone does. That could mean more upheaval for you. Annual leave often gets cancelled at short notice.

Then the time at uni is full on and he has been out of the education system for a while. Its difficult to hold down any kind of meaningful job although my brother had a part time job at Boots.

It requires a lot of sacrifice on your part and with young kids I'd probably be telling my dh that ship has sailed as I wouldn't be willing to make those sacrifices. It really needs to be a family decision. Best of luck op.

Your salary would have tide you over for longer than you think ... AND he might end up far away from where you live to study/intern/etc ... can you and your family cope with that?

I dropped out of GEM. Had a baby and the first two years had already given me terrible mental health, (partly because I did it back to back with my non-science degree, the catch up to get my science to standard was intense) and I just couldn’t face the thought of going back. I was literally pulling my own hair out at the thought of going back. Bullying was atrocious. I took a year of maternity leave and then a sabbatical year in the hope I could face it, but I just couldn’t. I spoke to loads of doctors I knew to try to convince myself to go back and a lot of them said the same thing «I hate it, but I’ve invested so much already, and hopefully it’ll get better». So I decided to cut my losses before I felt like that too.

Sorry for my big block of text by the way. 😳

Start doing some research would be my advice. Graduate entry medicine programs are only four years long. There are suitability tests that are taken as part of the application process. Foundation programme at the end of med school is two years and mandatory. Speciality training programmes vary in length GP is currently four years and anaesthetics is seven for example.
I regularly work with med students and the graduate ones with some life experience are very motivated and keen. Good for him for wanting to go for it, we have lots of trainees (junior doctors) who took similar paths. It is doable. DOI consultant for fifteen years but did med school straight from A levels

@JBFletcher90 with all due respect the job is very different to medical school. TBH that is a walk in the park compared to the realities of the job! (I know it doesn’t feel like it at the time and compared to other degrees it is a long old slog!)

My friend who is a doctor got priority to stay in her local area because she had three young children. He wouldn’t necessarily be sent away!

My oh is a gp and has trained plenty of other GPs in their 30s with families etc. So it's totally doable.... however you do need watertight childcare, particularly once qualified. Even as a GP, my husband is rarely home before 7pm earliest and works some weekends, evenings and bank holidays, and when he was training he did nights/lates etc. We don't have any family locally so if he was on his own or I was working, we'd need both full-time childcare and I would need a job that was a) local enough to get back for pick up/drop off (most settings/wraparound cover 8-6) and b) flexible enough to cover holidays, as when he's first qualified he won't be able to request annual leave for when he wants once like in a regular job, he'll get what you're given as he'll be on a rota, so would need to swap with someone if he wanted particular dates. My husband was able to do this on some occasions (e.g our wedding) but you are basically relying on goodwill of your colleagues, so it's a bit of a headache. If you couldn't get a job that was flexible for hols/had a commute that meant you couldn't make nursery pick up/wraparound care (most cover 8am-6pm) then you'd need a nanny. Obviously if you've got family able to have the kids or you are a stay at home parent (like myself) it's logistically much easier though.

That said, my husband does find it very fulfilling (albeit all consuming) so if you think you can sort the childcare then he should go for it!

Following your dreams is one thing but you have to consider your existing life. It’s not just him, it’s you and your children’s lives.

It’s a shame his degree wouldn’t allow him to be a physician assistant, we have a lot at our surgery who are all great and it could’ve been a good option.

I just had a look at a page about GEM and can see how incredibly competitive it is - not that it’s in itself a reason not to try but he would need excellent relevant work experience to stand out and that delays the start even further

My auntie did this in her late 30s with two young kids (and a supportive DH). This was in the 1990s and also in the US, which probably makes a difference.

She was a science teacher previously so presumably already had the right academic background.
She’s early 70s now - retired recently but had a very fulfilling career for 30 years

It’s not too old, but exhausting. Doing shift work in your 20s/early 30s is tiring but as you get older it’s so much more difficult. Watch Adam Kaye’s “this is going to hurt”. It’s not completely accurate (I don’t think people are quite so rude to each other anymore) but the bone tired feeling is real. It’s not like the tiredness from sleepless nights looking after children- it’s having to make important decisions whilst shattered and stressed. Then whilst doing shifts after Med school he would have to spend his late 40s/ early 50s doing specialty exams, whether that’s GP or hospital specialisms, managing portfolios etc (there are no short cuts to getting experience).

I’m a hospital consultant, love my job but in many ways totally burnt out. What keeps me going are fab colleagues, am good at what I do and I like meeting and treating patients, but the system is a killer.
I probably will steer my kids away from it, but if they really wanted to do it would be proud too. Your husband won’t get to reap many of the rewards, even the pension is based in career average salary and he won’t be on a higher salary for much of his career.

I’m a dr. I’ve never once looked at any id the professions being touted here as good alternatives and though ‘wish I was doing that’

I'm a doctor and I have now. But as a previous poster said you get to a certain stage in your career and you have the mortgage, the lifestyle, the salary, you've done the training and starting all over again with a massive paycut is just too much.

When I was 18 I only wanted to be a doctor. In my 20s I only wanted to do my specialty. Now in my 40s I can see that actually there are loads of jobs, and loads of specialties I would have been happy in - many I just didn't even know existed. A bit like relationships and thinking of 'the one' when there are billions of people on the planet.

It's a job, for the small amount of time you spend doing the bit you were really attracted to, you spend about 90% of your time doing shite. It's actually the quality of the shite that's important, not the 10%.

Being a doctor also feels a lot less meaningful after your first complaint, mistake, burnout, experience of bullying, assault, inquest, delete as appropriate...

His employer will be looking at employing either a junior doctor at 40 or a junior dr in their 20s, I think he’d have to be confident that ageism would prejudice him when applying for jobs. In an ideal world it wouldn’t but sadly from what I’ve seen of the NHS it would. His managers would have to be happy managing someone older than them.

Agree re childcare especially. I think one of the biggest factors in this is how easily someone else can look after your kids if they’re sick or if you get held up at work etc. As he won’t be able to miss important teaching time, and your career could suffer hugely from repeated time off for childcare emergencies - bad enough normally but very worrying if you’re the sole earner

@Goldi321 I hear you, but with all due respect, what might be a challenging job for some might be a walk in the park for others.
I understand that you felt the need to comment to ensure all points for covered for the OP, but I’d like to think I am speaking from some area of knowledge. I grew up with parents working in the NHS, I have worked in the NHS prior to med school (volunteer and paid roles) and I have been attending hospital placements (in some of the busiest central London hospitals) for the last 4 years of med school.
Personally, I have found greater ease and enjoyment actually working in hospitals and talking to patients rather than med school - but I understand I might be an outlier on this thread!

*wouldnt

no - just no. If I could go back and have a word with my 18 year old self it would be "go and do something else"
only benefit is the pension I have now

A lot of people have mentioned Adam Kay - is the programme worth watching for someone not wanting a medicine career? Just as something interesting to watch I mean.

One of my best friends did this about the same age and by 50 she was a consultant.

It was challenging but she would say fascinating.

However she was already a scientist - her first degree was in chemistry, she had a PhD and research posts. Might make it easier.