I have taught 18 month old a terrible lesson about consent

[Bing1983]

We have a new cleaner who has come a handful of times now. She is always saying how cute my son (18 months) is and going over to him. She sometimes tickles him, strokes his hair, prods his tummy etc. She also prodded his nappy at the front and saying "is that your nappy?" and this week I turned my gaze away for a second and she had picked DS up and was cooing over him.

DS was looking at me. Throughout all the above he looked uncomfortable and stood still with a confused look on his face. I know he was looking at me to see if this was ok. He has only ever been cuddled by us and a few select family since half his life was in lockdown with no bubble.

Anyway I am cross with myself for not intervening. I felt uncomfortable and I could see DS looked uncomfortable. But I came over all "British" and polite and felt awkward. I just sort of laughed it off and then when she put him down I scooped him away.

I know that I have unwittingly taught him a terrible lesson about consent and boundaries - that it's ok for a stranger to touch you and you should just grin and bear it and be polite. This is my stuff that I've carried into parenting. I should have intervened. I'm feeling absolutely awful about it.

What can I do to rectify my mistake with DS? Has anyone else ever been in this position? And if another stranger picks up DS what can I say that is firm but polite?

I expect he was surprised and then took cues from you...which tbh weren't great. But he won't remember it, you haven't "undone" any lessons because he's too young to understand them.

And your cleaner, someone in your home, isn't exactly a stranger.

Think about his future. That if he goes to nursery then people might pock him up - or even just scoop him up of he falls over. If you carry on like this then you are setting him up for being upset and shocked later.

I get what you mean OP. The number of people on here laughing about it goes some way to explaining why so many children are sexually abused and don’t speak up. It starts with little things like it’s ok to say no to an adult, it’s my body etc and those are really important lessons to teach from a very young age.

Next time just be polite but clear that he doesn’t like people he doesn’t know picking him up.

@Servalan

Op, I hope you are OK.

I really hate the way that AIBU can turn into a load of hostility against an op - especially if the op is posting from a position of anxiety.

I agree with posters in that you are worrying unnecessarily and there is a danger of passing your obvious anxiety onto your child - and you really need to address this - but I also acknowledge that we know fuck all about what has got you to the place where you feel so anxious.

I hope that amongst all the negativity you are able to draw out the positive points of what people are saying about the importance of socialisation, not passing on your anxieties and how opportunities to teach about consent will arrive at appropriate times.

I've been on the receiving end of an AIBU pile on before (under another name) and I found it very distressing (I did learn useful stuff from it, but I did feel pretty beaten up. I think folk forget that their small dig is part of a deluge of other such comments and that cumulatively it can be pretty overwhelming for the OP. Particularly if you are anxious).

What an excellent post. You have said very clearly what I wanted to say. I’ve also been subjected to an AIBU pile-on after posting about something that made me anxious. I was called unbalanced, loony, a drama queen. It’s nasty.

Well done for reaching out, OP. I hope there’s some positivity in this thread.

You are in danger of raising a seriously anxious child who is unable to interact with other people and will be a spoiled brat into the bargain because he has to give his consent for everything

I teach some kids like this and they are a fricking NIGHTMARE.

@MummyGummy

I get what you mean OP. The number of people on here laughing about it goes some way to explaining why so many children are sexually abused and don’t speak up. It starts with little things like it’s ok to say no to an adult, it’s my body etc and those are really important lessons to teach from a very young age.

Next time just be polite but clear that he doesn’t like people he doesn’t know picking him up.

Thanks @MummyGummy for getting it

What a fuss

Thanks @Servalan for your supportive comment. This is actually on Chat and not AIBU, but it's still attracted the nasty comments.

@Bing1983

Thanks *@Servalan* for your supportive comment. This is actually on Chat and not AIBU, but it's still attracted the nasty comments.

It's not nasty to point out that your approach has limited practicality. No one is saying that children shouldn't be aware of their own bodily autonomy. But expecting a non-competent child to be able to consent in all circumstances is pretty unrealistic

Pfb?

In response to a few accusations:

1. I don't "ask" permission to pick up my child or change a nappy. Of course not. But I don't just grab my child roughshod without warning (unless he's in sudden danger). If you read Phillippa Perry's book on parenting she explains how telling (note* - not asking) your child what happening next can support them to feel safe. Eg "I'm putting your coat on now, and then we are getting in the pushchair".

1. Of course it had nothing to do with the cleaner's role versus another professional. What a snobby assumption.

1. Some people on here do seem to enjoy piling on with nasty comments. Irrespective of differing opinions, there's no need for some of the awful comments about my son. I'm not taking onboard the nastiness but it says something about those posters.

It’s a good lesson for you to have realised your boundaries and what’s important to you, you have plenty of time to practise this moving forward with his life. When he’s older I recommend called respect, consent and being in charge of you.

You’re over thinking this. Please don’t worry.
She was just being friendly.

I’m not sure where you live, but in my part of Scotland this is totally standard behaviour ! Total strangers in supermarkets used to stop and chat to my babies , sometimes ruffle their hair and tickle their chin.

I think it is good for babies children to experience all manner of small social interactions with strangers as well as family. While your children are young there will always be a parent right there beside them.

The main thing is to be a loving considerate parent - Which you clearly are !

@MummyGummy

I get what you mean OP. The number of people on here laughing about it goes some way to explaining why so many children are sexually abused and don’t speak up. It starts with little things like it’s ok to say no to an adult, it’s my body etc and those are really important lessons to teach from a very young age.

Next time just be polite but clear that he doesn’t like people he doesn’t know picking him up.

The baby is 18 months - it's a massive stretch to go from a familiar cleaner picking him up in the presence of his mother to children not saying about sexual abuse.

Unfortunately it looks as though the tone of many posts here has prevented OP from actually listening to and taking in the advice. This is the real downside of Mumsnet.

@Bing1983 please look beyond the snark in many posts. It might be unpleasant, but you will see that the vast majority of posters feel that your child needs to be comfortable with people who are familiar to him, picking him up. Until he has the cognition and language skills he can't consent with any awareness or understanding. You are not factoring in his developmental stage and the damage that Covid has done. The fact that you only allow a few "selected" family members to hold him is already a concern.

At this point he needs your reassurance and confirmation that it's okay for other known people to touch and hold him. It's part of his social development, and it's absolutely necessary for him to be able to cope if someone else has to step in, in an emergency.

If you don't want to believe us, please talk to your health visitor to ask her opinion on socialising an 18-month-old.

I don't "ask" permission to pick up my child or change a nappy. Of course not. But I don't just grab my child roughshod without warning (unless he's in sudden danger). If you read Phillippa Perry's book on parenting she explains how telling (note - not asking) your child what happening next can support them to feel safe. Eg "I'm putting your coat on now, and then we are getting in the pushchair".

@Bing1983
Then why is your thread title and OP all about the lack of consent?
I'm genuinely confused. You don't expect consent from your toddler but you feel awful because he didn't consent to your cleaner picking him up?

Maybe it's a misunderstanding because of the wording you've used which sounded rather dramatic, as it doesn't really sound as if you're actually talking about gaining consent now.

And you know there's a massive spectrum of behaviour between gaining consent from a toddler who is cognitively incapable of giving it and 'riding roughshod' don't you?

@MummyGummy

I get what you mean OP. The number of people on here laughing about it goes some way to explaining why so many children are sexually abused and don’t speak up. It starts with little things like it’s ok to say no to an adult, it’s my body etc and those are really important lessons to teach from a very young age.

Next time just be polite but clear that he doesn’t like people he doesn’t know picking him up.

Christ Almighty. The cleaner who is in his house a few times a week picking the child up and you bring up children not telling about sexual abuse.......absolute garbage comment.

OP it sounds like you have had issues in your own life with consent and boundaries and you are massively projecting them onto your child. The cleaner was being nice and friendly and I'm pretty sure ds would have let you know if he didn't like it by screaming the place down.

If he'd gone to nursery he'd have been picked up and changed by all different people and they wouldn't have been asking his consent every time.

@Bing1983

In response to a few accusations:

1. I don't "ask" permission to pick up my child or change a nappy. Of course not. But I don't just grab my child roughshod without warning (unless he's in sudden danger). If you read Phillippa Perry's book on parenting she explains how telling (note* - not asking) your child what happening next can support them to feel safe. Eg "I'm putting your coat on now, and then we are getting in the pushchair".

1. Of course it had nothing to do with the cleaner's role versus another professional. What a snobby assumption.

1. Some people on here do seem to enjoy piling on with nasty comments. Irrespective of differing opinions, there's no need for some of the awful comments about my son. I'm not taking onboard the nastiness but it says something about those posters.

So you don't pick your child up unless you tell him why you are picking him up and what you are going to do with his next? So you would never just scoop him up and give him a cuddle or would you say " Hugo, I am going to pick up now and give you a big hug, is that ok?"

But you would grab him up if the house was on fire...

Sigh.

Lol do u really think he will remember this. He is def your first child. You need to relax you will be mental by the time his 18

I think you are reading too many books!

@Bing1983

In response to a few accusations:

1. I don't "ask" permission to pick up my child or change a nappy. Of course not. But I don't just grab my child roughshod without warning (unless he's in sudden danger). If you read Phillippa Perry's book on parenting she explains how telling (note* - not asking) your child what happening next can support them to feel safe. Eg "I'm putting your coat on now, and then we are getting in the pushchair".

1. Of course it had nothing to do with the cleaner's role versus another professional. What a snobby assumption.

1. Some people on here do seem to enjoy piling on with nasty comments. Irrespective of differing opinions, there's no need for some of the awful comments about my son. I'm not taking onboard the nastiness but it says something about those posters.

So the cleaner grabbed him roughshod? Either it's a major drip feed OP or you're now exaggerating to try and make it sound like the cleaner did something bad.

“He has only ever been cuddled by us and a few select family since half his life was in lockdown with no bubble.”

This is what is wrong here not the poor cleaner. He needs as many interactions as possible not fewer.

When you have 2 or 3 you will be shouting "I've told you 3 times, put your bloody shoes on"

I think you are over thinking this because of the pandemic. If the lockdowns had not of happened he would have been picked up by other's earlier.
If you are going with the idea he can only be picked up by people if he gives them consent you are going to really struggle if you ever want him to go to nursery or be baby sat. A baby who has only ever been picked up by immediate family members could potentially not want to change the status quo.

An adult who regularly enters your home and cleans for you, isn't just any stranger. You know her and she knows you. Would you feel the same if another mum at playgroup picked him up?

If he was fighting to get away from her and she gripped him tightly and wouldn't let go, then yes fair enough, but he's 18mnths and cannot give 'consent'.

If anything you'll just teach him to be scared and weary of others, when actually you want to raise a confident, self-assured DC.