How old would you guess this child was?

[Ohdoleavemealone]

Some of her behaviours include...

Stripping off as soon as she gets home

Being more interested in boxes of polystyrene than her toys

Having a tantrum every time she is told she cannot have something

Repeatedly asking for something she know she cannot have, and not giving up even when told no 4 times until shouted at and then goes and cries.

Hits out at people rather than using her words

Takes 30 minutes to eat a small bowl of cereal (won't have milk and eats cheerios one at a time)

Calls parents "mama and dada"

Likes to be held like a baby

Breaks most toys she owns

Thinking about the behaviour perhaps of your own child, I am wondering what age these behaviours are typical of - I know it is difficult as children develop at different rates but I am concerned about my child.

Stripping off as soon as she gets home
Ds is 6 in march and much prefers being in his pants and dressing gown than uniform and will often change immediately

Being more interested in boxes of polystyrene than her toys does she play with it? Use imagination and pretend with it?

Having a tantrum every time she is told she cannot have something as above, regular occurrence here

Repeatedly asking for something she know she cannot have, and not giving up even when told no 4 times until shouted at and then goes and cries same but he doesn’t get shouted at for asking, we explain reasons why we have said no and how it can become a yes

Hits out at people rather than using her words
He doesn’t do this

Takes 30 minutes to eat a small bowl of cereal (won't have milk and eats cheerios one at a time) DS doesn’t do this but friends 6 year old is the slowest eater I’ve ever known, she analyses every mouthful

Calls parents "mama and dada" ds does this lots, especially when tired - same for the below, and snuggly cuddles too

Likes to be held like a baby

Sounds like it could be trauma and attachment related as well as developmental delay. Is there a possibility of FASD?

@Ohdoleavemealone

Thanks everyone. It seems I should seek some support. She is 6.5 and had a rough start to life in the foster system. Due to that we were always told she may be emotionally delayed by 12-18 months but I feel some of her behaviour is odd even for 5 year olds.

Adopted / looked after children’s behaviour can be influenced by early trauma all their lives and many of these behaviours I can recognise in my own DS.

The pushing you towards shouting, ignoring no, breaking toys and maybe taking clothes off all sound like variations on pushing you away to try and get the rejection over with, pushing you to see if you will lash out too (if that’s what the have experienced in their early life) and shame driven, doesn’t deserve toys etc.

The baby like behaviour is very common DS is 5 and still very tactile like a toddler, especially after school when he’s tired. He always wants to be touching, if we watch a film he will rest his feet on my feet, or play with my hair etc.

The food, some kids are really slow eaters anyway, but food issues are really common where there’s been neglect.

@LizBennet Fully aware but constantly second guessing what is trauma and what is personality traits. I am not complaining about her behaviour, I am trying to gauge whether she has a minor delay or I should be more concerned!

2-3 but I am guessing you are talking about a teenager.

What I do when my dc (both on the spectrum) keep asking for things over and over is say “I have said no, if you ask again I will not reply” and then just end the conversation. But also make sure you give a reason why you have said ‘no’. Some kids just don’t like being told ‘no’ so it’s best to use other words or say something like “you can have a biscuit after you have done xyz”.

[quote Ohdoleavemealone]@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry
Example of what I mean
"mama can I have buiscuits?"
No, tea is nearly ready
"please mama"
No, wait until after tea
"Pleaseeee"
No
"Just one?"
Not until after tea
"please just one mama"
No
Pleaseeeeeeee
NO![/quote]
Well this happens here every day, only it’s chocolate.
Whingeing for toys and sweets when we go out happens too.
Just say no and let her strop/ ignore the behaviour. Pushing boundaries and if you give in or react, it’ll keep happening. That’s just my opinion.

If you feel there’s more to this because of the child’s background then see a specialist for advice.

My dd is 10 but until she was about 8 she used to strip off straight from school and stay naked!
She also did the pleading for a snack right before tea and refusing to take no for an answer.
She still calls me mummy and can get quite emotional/stubborn.
Some of her friends are similarly a little behind where I might have expected them to be. I think personally that the last 2 years of covid have affected social and emotional development with extended lockdowns, lack of school and social contacts.
If you are worried then seek assessment, but I would advise a conversation about boundaries when she isn’t upset. Shouting never resolves anything.

Tbh this sounds just like my 3 year old. I have no idea whether this is normal for older age groups as I have no experience with children other than my son. Going off this thread, it sounds like it’s normal for up to 7 year olds.

Did you receive education and counselling on how to raise a child with developmental trauma? You can not treat them the same was as nt children. Hunger might be a trigger for her. Do not raise your voice at her, you need to be calm in the storm. You need to find a specialist in childhood trauma. And she will need to be babied for long time. My almost 11 yo still has "baby time."

@TonksInPurple Yes, it sadly is a possibility but from what I have read it is almost impossible to get a diagnosis because everything overlaps with something else.

I just want to add that my 3 year old calls us ‘mama’ and ‘dada’ because that’s how we refer to ourselves with him. I like still being called mama but I suppose I might adjust this as he gets older.

Sounds tough, but mostly this is normal. Look into some therapies for early trauma.

I would say don’t shout about biscuits. She’s asking again because she’s not feeling heard. Maybe suggest you bake/pick cookies for dessert once she’s helped with dinner. I assume your busy cooking and she’s just wanting attention, not a biscuit, so you could try cooking with her.

In terms of being held, wouldn’t you? If you had been through trauma and possibly denied physical affection, I would be desperate for love. So give her lots of love, cuddles. If she plays up, offer her more cuddles.

Give her pocket money to save up for her own toys. She’s ready at her age and might enjoy the independence. This is normal and will continue. My dd has massive tantrums at 7 still! Shopping is hard.

Use bribery for nakedness if it’s really offensive. Or just let her grow out of it I’m her own time. Again, you don’t know why she feels the need and some kids just love being naked. Ds1 hated clothes for a while. Still refuses to wear socks, hates jackets and jumpers. He’s nearly 10.

Try not to stress too much. Be gentle on both you both. Most of this is just childish behaviour we all have to navigate and it happens at different ages.

To get into the foster care system a dc has to have been through a lot as they tend to prefer to keep children with their parents/carers.
If she has been through lots of foster carers her attachment is likely to be poor &her social & emotional development.
It could be neglect or parents who are drug addicts (& if mother was drinking or drug taking through pregnancy it can affect child both physically & mentally) poor nutrition poor growth development.
The birth process itself may well have been difficult & minimal brain injury can occur through lack of oxygen (dyspraxia use to be referred to as minimal brain injury - dd was originally referred as having this before her multiple diagnosis)
I would definitely go for further diagnosis bearing in mind her experiences as well. It does sound like asd. Read up on those poor children in Romanian Orphanages many appeared to have asd & read what happened to them latter (age of child & length time in there affect how successfully the adoptive parents were able to help them develop - I remember a discussion about this in Psychology at uni as to whether they actually had autism)

[quote Ohdoleavemealone]@LizBennet Fully aware but constantly second guessing what is trauma and what is personality traits. I am not complaining about her behaviour, I am trying to gauge whether she has a minor delay or I should be more concerned![/quote]
Aah fair dos. Tbh a lot of the behaviours sound like my autistic 7 year old. With her being 6.5 it could be a combination of her start and also a slight delay. Nothing stands out as alarming to me.

[quote Ohdoleavemealone]@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry
Example of what I mean
"mama can I have buiscuits?"
No, tea is nearly ready
"please mama"
No, wait until after tea
"Pleaseeee"
No
"Just one?"
Not until after tea
"please just one mama"
No
Pleaseeeeeeee
NO![/quote]
I don't feel qualified or like I have the experience to judge whether your DD needs specialist support, but this particular example is very typical of my 4yo.

"Mummy, can I have a snack"
"No, it's almost dinner time".
"But I'm hungry, can I have a snack now."
"No, it's dinner soon".
"But I want a snack NOW!"
"No, we're having dinner soon."
"Just a little snack. Not a big one".

And then it goes on and on. I don't see this stopping any time soon since this behaviour (pushing boundaries, asserting their will, bargaining) seems an intrinsic part of my DC's personality rather than just age-related. What has been helpful for me is reading about parenting strong-willed or 'spirited' children and how you can satisfy their need for validation and control while still setting boundaries and without giving in to them.

Apart from the stripping off, I would say my nearly 4 year old would do all these things!

3

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You sound really stressed, have you asked your GP abdout getting some support? IME once you start shouting children stop listening so you need to alter your behaviour to help your child change theirs.
My children are adults and still call me mummy, my dgs calls his mummy mama, it's just personal preference I think. Nothing about your child's behaviour sounds too outlandish but your reactions seem quite harsh. Having more positive and nurturing interactions could make a huge difference to both of your happiness.

OP, you should post on the adoption board. You will get lots of helpful advice. This behaviour is very typical of children who have experienced developmental trauma. My adopted son (nearly 5) exhibits a lot of the same behaviours. He also has global developmental delay. Do you practice therapeutic parenting?

Sounds like standard developmental trauma and attachment disorder. The wanting to be babied is positive. Kids try to get back what they need and developmentally traumatised children are younger than their years by atleast a couple of years. Sounds like she needs appropriate and expert assessment and therapy.

Sorry just read she is care experienced- you should tap in to specialist support? One of the adoption charities might be a good start.

I’m not at all sure about ages and stages.

Mine were doing the repetitive asking at 6; I hit upon the strategy of saying “no matter how many times you ask the answer will still be no” which worked ironically I was often on the verge of giving in when I’d say this!

Stripping off went on til about 5 or 6 with ds (asd).

My 11 year old (neurotypical) still likes a baby cuddle.

I think you should talk to a professional about this (paediatrician? Developmental psychologist - start with GP or HV) who will have a standardised measure. There’s no harm in flagging this up. It may well lead to extra support and accommodations that could make a big positive difference.

I agree attachment disorder- but to be clear due to attachment to birth parents, not OP.