Your examples of how men just don’t *get it*

[AsYouWishButtercup]

What are your examples of how men just don’t get What life is like for women?

Mine was a dad at school drop off today who asked if I was still training for a half marathon. I said no as I’ve just had surgery but TBH it it nigh-on impossible to train in winter outside because of the dark nights and by the time I leave work it’s too dark to start a run

He said “Why don’t you just invest in a head torch” when I explained it’s not the lack of light that’s the problem, it’s the danger of being attacked, it seems the thought had NEVER occurred to him that women have to factor these things into everyday life. I’m constantly amazed that men are surprised by these things.

@ArsenicNLace

But statistics show that men are more likely to be victims of violent crime than women outside the home (figures reversed for inside the home). Men make up the majority of murder victims so why don't men feel the same concerns and alter their behaviour the same way a lot of women seem to? How many young men have been murdered on the streets of London in the past few years compared to women? Genuine question?

Are men more likely to be victims of crime with a sexual motive?

No

@Theunamedcat

All the men who think you can choose when to have a period like peeing like they tell you to just hold it in don't wet yourself

Eh? What men think this!

There was a really interesting R4 programme on this today, give it a listen if you get chance. It included poetry and I think one of the people behind Take Back the Streets.

It mentioned how even in Primary Schools boys take up space differently, which reminded me my daughter's school have a rota for the football pitch to ensure the girls get a look in, or the boys dominate.

This male perceived 'right' to space starts frighteningly early.

My husband jokes he's always getting in my way (we both WFH).Nothing OTT, like following me into rooms to hang out when I want down time, like that other thread. It's more if I move to, say, the bin and he is headed to something near the bin, he'll not read my body language and he'll just stride to where he needs to be. I don't know if I'm explaining it well, but it's really starting to piss me off because it's like he's assuming right of way, to use a driving analogy.

@Cas112

My boyfriend saying I'm probably sleeping loads and more tired because I'm not doing a lot during my first trimester of pregnancy, I should try and do more things after work. He can't seem to grasp the thought of early pregnancy fatigue 🙃😂

Wow... get him no some reading material.

Great mansplaining there

Male friend mentioned that he doesn't like to go running in the woods near our house as he is worried he might have a heart attack and not be found until it's too late. I told him that I don't go running there because I am worried I will be raped and murdered. He had never, ever considered that risk.

@Theunamedcat

All the men who think you can choose when to have a period like peeing like they tell you to just hold it in don't wet yourself

I've never in all my years known any men who thought this.

@PurpleDaisies

We gals get to wear much better & bigger variety of clothes.

Oh goody. I’m less likely to be paid what I’m worth at work but at least I can buy t shirts in more different colours than a bloke. Excellent news.

@Tonkerbea

There was a really interesting R4 programme on this today, give it a listen if you get chance. It included poetry and I think one of the people behind Take Back the Streets.

It mentioned how even in Primary Schools boys take up space differently, which reminded me my daughter's school have a rota for the football pitch to ensure the girls get a look in, or the boys dominate.

This male perceived 'right' to space starts frighteningly early.

My husband jokes he's always getting in my way (we both WFH).Nothing OTT, like following me into rooms to hang out when I want down time, like that other thread. It's more if I move to, say, the bin and he is headed to something near the bin, he'll not read my body language and he'll just stride to where he needs to be. I don't know if I'm explaining it well, but it's really starting to piss me off because it's like he's assuming right of way, to use a driving analogy.

What is the other thread you mentioned? DH follows me around constantly, I'm curious...

@Shapiro

You can choose to live in fear but most women go about their business without fear of being attacked.

Obviously some places and times you need to be cautious such as not wearing headphones in case you are mugged but making yourself anxious that men are going to leap out and rape you as soon as the sun goes down will make your life a misery.

I wouldn't negate your experience, and great if you live somewhere you can do this, but why is it such a stretch for you to realise that if the OP has posted this, it's not the case where she lives, and if it's a school dad, then it is a clueless one who also lives in the same place. So why do you think that you are entitled to say that she chooses to live in fear? Are you a man?

@EishetChayil

Just finished doing the deed, as I was ovulating that day. DH rolled over and asks "are you going to do a pregnancy test now?" 😫

That's not 'men don't get it' That's ignorance/lack of knowledge of biology. To be honest there are lots of examples of women on this sight who's knowledge of their own biology is shocking.

I had a conversation about women not feeling safe at night with a male colleague. He is a lovely, kind guy who lives (and goes out drinking in) quite a rough area. He said that if he's ever walking at night behind a lone female, he will catch her up and as he goes past say "All right?" just to stop her worrying. It took me quite a while to convince him this was not the right approach and he'd be better off hanging back or crossing the road!

@tearinghairout

I had a conversation about women not feeling safe at night with a male colleague. He is a lovely, kind guy who lives (and goes out drinking in) quite a rough area. He said that if he's ever walking at night behind a lone female, he will catch her up and as he goes past say "All right?" just to stop her worrying. It took me quite a while to convince him this was not the right approach and he'd be better off hanging back or crossing the road!

I don’t know about this. Crossing the road, maybe, but hanging back just makes me feel nervous. I like the approach of going ahead (so he’s visible) and passing a friendly but not intrusive comment.

These threads always confuse me. Women detailing all the ways in which they limit themselves in order to mitigate the threat from male violence.

But if anyone suggests that anyone else should take or indeed even think about these measures, this is viewed as 'victim blaming', because literally the only thing that causes women to be raped is rapists.

Is it OK to want to take care of your own personal safety or isn't it?

All the (mostly male) transport planners wanting to encourage more walking and bus use instead of cars.

I’ve spoken to more than one who has just never thought that one reason we drive is that we can lock our doors and protect our personal space.

My DH didn't understand why I would lock the car doors in an area I felt cautious about, when stopped at traffic lights.

Also i once left the car near the station because I was going out after work and would be late home. He insisted that he should use it to pick the kids up and take them home because they wouldn't want to walk home (just over half a mile, around 6.30pm and daylight - DC were primary school age) so I ended up getting to the station at 12am and having the choice of getting a taxi or walking home (admittedly a main road - but street lights turned out)

I do go running in the dark though, as I like to run all year round. I have a pro viz gilet and a wearable torch. (Although obviously I'm aware these won't prevent me from getting attacked)

I do take other precautions that dh doesn’t

I think this is exactly OP's point, no?

I can think of 3 examples off the top of my head.

Dh didn't get why so many films irritated me. Because they're about men, men's lives. With the odd woman as a prop. 'But that reflects how it was/is' .

My brother in law complaining how hard his mate has it post divorce. Having to pay his wife to 'lie around doing nothing'. I asked what childcare the friend was doing and how that was impacting on his pension. Did not go down well.

Why women take longer in the loo than men. Why this is affected by our biology.

There are more. It's male privilege.

@AsYouWishButtercup

What are your examples of how men just don’t get What life is like for women?

Mine was a dad at school drop off today who asked if I was still training for a half marathon. I said no as I’ve just had surgery but TBH it it nigh-on impossible to train in winter outside because of the dark nights and by the time I leave work it’s too dark to start a run

He said “Why don’t you just invest in a head torch” when I explained it’s not the lack of light that’s the problem, it’s the danger of being attacked, it seems the thought had NEVER occurred to him that women have to factor these things into everyday life. I’m constantly amazed that men are surprised by these things.

Agreed.

I said to my husband that having girls (we have 2) is different to raising boys. For the reason you’ve just mentioned, pregnancy, periods, other social pressures etc and it hadn’t occurred to him.

@JessieLongleg

A male friend posted on FB not traveling is all about your own limitations just go somewhere and sleep on the beach. It would be amazing to feel so free in the world.

Oh yes, I had a similar conversation with my partner. He just didn't get that the freedom of solo travel, hitchhiking, couch surfing at a stranger's home is something of a male privilege. Likewise his surprise at my reluctance to take a short cut through an alley at night on our way to the theatre (now known as 'the alley of male privilege' in our household), or why me debating whether to go for a run in the park (secluded) or along the main road (dicks in cars yelling) is a thing.

I have him better trained now, of course And before anyone says it, yes I'm fully aware that both women and men can do all of the above. The point is that men typically just 'do' these things without a second thought, whereas women run a constant risk assessment in their heads. Plus knowing that if the worse were to happen, there'll be the inevitable 'well what was she thinking, sleeping on that beach/getting in that car/walking down that alley' etc.

Oh and I do go about my life without fear of being attacked. In general.

I still take steps though. About where I would or wouldn't go after dark. About where I park. About messaging. Most women do in my experience. I shouldn't have to, but I do. It's not just fear of rape and murder. I've been flashed at, heckled etc. It's not pleasant.

@cstaff

My friend and I were walking through a dark lonely part of town one night about 10.30pm - now grant it there were two of us so we were fine but there was a man walking about 5m behind us the whole way. Even when we crossed the road he crossed shortly after. He had no idea that his presence alone had us on edge.

Obviously but what else would you have expected him to do? Delay his journey, or go a longer route just because other people 'feel unsafe'?

I get that it's scary (if I see a man following me I automatically go on alert) but at the same time what else are they supposed to do?

The building I work in with several other colleagues is separate from the main building. After work I was the last one there. Caretaker came into the building with another man to fix something. Caretaker left random man there with me alone in secluded building. I'm sure I was perfectly safe but I felt vulnerable so left for the day. When I mentioned it the next day to the caretaker (a man), he just didn't understand why I felt so uncomfortable

@ArsenicNLace

But statistics show that men are more likely to be victims of violent crime than women outside the home (figures reversed for inside the home). Men make up the majority of murder victims so why don't men feel the same concerns and alter their behaviour the same way a lot of women seem to? How many young men have been murdered on the streets of London in the past few years compared to women? Genuine question?

I think those statistics don't take in to account the circumstances surrounding the killing. Many 'street crimes' involve history. Be it grudges, drugs, gang culture, etc., not that it diminishes them. But I think the difference here (or the perception) is that women are more prone to random attacks simply because they are women.

@MorrisZapp

These threads always confuse me. Women detailing all the ways in which they limit themselves in order to mitigate the threat from male violence.

But if anyone suggests that anyone else should take or indeed even think about these measures, this is viewed as 'victim blaming', because literally the only thing that causes women to be raped is rapists.

Is it OK to want to take care of your own personal safety or isn't it?

WTF have I just read? The issue is not women taking precautions. Or advising women to take precautions. But blamingvictims for 'not' doing so. 'If she had done/not done X Y Z she wouldn't have been attacked/raped' is the disgusting attitude.

@cstaff ah my bad, 5m is not that far away! Apologies
My sense of distance is rather skewed.. he should have hung back