Rude 4 year old.

[ImFree2doasiwant]

I'm at my wits end with him. Dc1 is not like it at all, never has been. Ds2 has been doted on,and somewhat indulged as a toddler, by GPS but still had the same upbringing as ds1.

DM picks both dc up from school for me 1 day a week. There is literally no way around this other than me giving up work, and being unable to pay the mortgage.

Each time, I'm getting home to find he's refused to eat dinner, has been rude, and badly behaved. He refuses to say goodbye, or days it in such an offhand unpleasant way. It's upsetting my parents, and it's upsetting me that I'm stuck in this situation.

Hes said that he wants me to pick him up. I do all drop offs and all pick ups apart from this 1

I don't know how to deal with it.

Four year olds, are often exhausted coming out of school, parcelled with grandparents instead of Mum, their tiredness shows in rudeness and naughtiness.

This is where a snack and drink come in.
As soon as they get home, or even in the car, or on the walk home.

It’s not a bribe, it’s because they don’t get enough to eat and certainly not enough to drink at school.

A big drink, some raisins or apple slices.

Seriously, you will all notice an improvement in behaviour. They can have a meal later, when they are more settled, rather than it become a battle ground.

Drink and snack, and don’t be regimented with the snack, alternate it, a yoghurt, or a few crisps, or raisins, or sliced apple.

Big drink, not just water, something like a sugar free squash.
Water is monotonous, vary it.

@Thinkbiglittleone

But you want those boundaries to be set by punishing him until his cognitive development catches up, you don’t want boundaries set by finding out what’s causing the behaviour in the first place.

But they can already make decisions on being rude, so nothing needs to catch up.

He’s not making a decision to be rude though. It’s involuntary. Unless you think four year olds are inherently spiteful.

He’s not making a decision to be rude though. It’s involuntary. Unless you think four year olds are inherently spiteful.

Don't be silly. As I've said it is a decision, 4 year olds understand right from wrong and manners, he's opting not to use them after being reminded to, that's rude.

@Thinkbiglittleone

He’s not making a decision to be rude though. It’s involuntary. Unless you think four year olds are inherently spiteful.

Don't be silly. As I've said it is a decision, 4 year olds understand right from wrong and manners, he's opting not to use them after being reminded to, that's rude.

You either think he’s being deliberately spiteful by choosing his behaviour, or you think he can’t control it. Which is it?

You either think he’s being deliberately spiteful by choosing his behaviour, or you think he can’t control it. Which is it?

He choosing not to use his manners.

@PinkPrettyPearls they get a snack and a drink in the car.

@Thinkbiglittleone

You either think he’s being deliberately spiteful by choosing his behaviour, or you think he can’t control it. Which is it?

He choosing not to use his manners.

Choosing to be spiteful?

Choosing to be spiteful?
Choosing not to use his manners

He does get a gentle reminder about manners. On these occasions he will often shout. I do think he's picking sone of this up from school.

@Thinkbiglittleone

Choosing to be spiteful? Choosing not to use his manners

Funny how you’re being such a coward now when you were so brave earlier with your ideas of punishment for a four year old.

You think he’s inherently spiteful, choosing spite over kindness. Age four.

That’s why nobody should listen to your advice about punishments.

Funny how you’re being such a coward now when you were so brave earlier with your ideas of punishment for a four year old.

I'm not quite sure why you now choose to name call because I'm answering a question the way I want to ?

You think he’s inherently spiteful, choosing spite over kindness. Age four
Don't put words in my mouth, I never said he was spiteful those are words you choose to associate with a 4 year old not me, so play your games elsewhere .

That’s why nobody should listen to your advice about punishments
Everyone has a right to an opinion, mine is to have clear boundaries, it makes kids happier

And even our 4 year old knows it rude to name call.

@Thinkbiglittleone

Funny how you’re being such a coward now when you were so brave earlier with your ideas of punishment for a four year old.

I'm not quite sure why you now choose to name call because I'm answering a question the way I want to ?

You think he’s inherently spiteful, choosing spite over kindness. Age four
Don't put words in my mouth, I never said he was spiteful those are words you choose to associate with a 4 year old not me, so play your games elsewhere .

That’s why nobody should listen to your advice about punishments
Everyone has a right to an opinion, mine is to have clear boundaries, it makes kids happier

And even our 4 year old knows it rude to name call.

Your advice is to punish an unhappy four year old.

Your advice is to punish an unhappy four year old.

Round in circles again

My second DC was also challenging at that age. They do grow out of it. He's probably just pushing the boundaries and try to get more of your time. I would just continue to tell him off calmly whenever he misbehave but don't make too much of a fuss. It may make it worse if he gets too much attention in response to poor behaviour.

@Imdreamingofapeacefulxmas

Maybe your ds dissent see her in that way.

It's his perspective after all, you don't know what's going on and unfortunately unless you investigate you won't find out.
Something is triggering him, it could be her house, the lights, her car, her perfume, a pet as pp said maybe she's too bouncy for him.. Maybe she expects too much of him maybe she's scaring him maybe someone at school looks like her and he doesn't like that person maybe that day he has tough lessons or pe and he's exhausted...
He might lack that self reflection at four.
He might not know to tell you.. Mummy it's the lights at grandams they hurt my eyes and give me a headache..

I know my 4 year old DS HATES being quizzed after school. And this is something some older family members do and it always descends into him ignoring them at the start and shouting NO and trying to hide after it's gone on for a while and they've totally failed to pick up that he doesn't want to be questioned. They're just making conversation in their mind and being lovely. In his mind he's had a full day of it and he doesn't know why people can't just leave him alone and stop asking him things.

It’s natural for some 4 year olds to be so tired it makes them cranky. It’s just temporary and will pass eventually.

In his defence, you’re not there and the dynamics with grandparents may have got set in to a negative pattern. I wonder if he senses that they prefer the eldest, feels pressurised to eat or compared with his brother with him falling short. I suspect there’s more to the dynamics then meets the eye.

In your shoes I’d ensure he had more sleep day to day and set rewards for good behaviour on your return.

Remind him the morning they pick him up.

Ask your parents to give him a choice about when to eat his meal (once mummy gets home or with brother earlier) so that the pressure is 100% off and he has some control in a situation he feels powerless about.

Ask them to do one fun thing each week, something he loves and involves less direction or potential pressure from grandparents. Choose something naturally positive.

Also keep talking, his behaviour is just an expression of his feelings and he clearly feels rotten about the situation.

Lastly give him a little pep talk in the morning. Talk lightly with kindness about manners

Be clear about behavioural expectations And give descriptive praise about the things he’s doing right, find some positives. Sometimes this can help with finding a way out of negative dynamics

Pumper you have been incredibly patient in your posts.

I do work around the eyfs. The early years foundation stage and your posts are spot on.
I don't know if anyone saw my post earlier about my dd with mispphonia, it's like certain sounds trigger an uncomfortable response in her and people really suffer with it.
Her trigger was my eating.
It's not to do with the ear it's something in the brain but some posters told me she was a rude little madam who shouldn't get her dinner for storming out. Usually however she was rational and as good as gold.
Something is equally setting off a four year old and I'm struggling to understand why the adults are taking his behaviour personally instead of trying to find out what is going on.

Everyone needs to self reflect including ops mum, there have been some excellent suggestions here as to what could be setting him off including her questioning him etc.

Everyone needs to be flexible and accommodating.
What your child knows and understands at four is irrelevant to the next person. They develope at different stages.

Op I only accept that your son is trying to show how he feels from how he is behaving and I hope for all your sakes that you start to realise you need to openly and intelligently work out why rather than jumping in with him being rude and needing punishing.

@Saltyquiche I've said several times that he is the favoured child from the side of the GPS.

@Imdreamingofapeacefulxmas I appreciate your advice, abd all of that posted here whether everyone agrees or not. I havent dismissed anything, many of the suggestions are already in place. I do think it's fallen into a pattern of behaviour and we all need to find a way out of it.

I did also say I struggle with it more than I should, because I am stuck in this position when I can't manage without DMs help on that 1 day a week. They shouldn't be having to do this but there are literally no other options atm. So yes I feel guilty, yes I came hone after a day at my stressful job, an yes it upset me more than it should when I saw how he was behaving. None of that his fault.

At no point did I say I was going to jump into punishing him.

My dd fell into a pattern of "rude behaviour" storming out of meals all of a sudden.

Which turned out to be my chewing triggering an uncontrollable response in her. Its quite common and people see red mist and even feel violent from certain sounds.

I understand your predicament but even then your schedule and what you have to do isn't his fault.
You said things are in place but I've not seen yet that you've taken on board people saying, maybe your mum is too jolly, asks him too many questions, etc.

I think for instance if you had written "in a tight spot, I need my dm to collect ds on one day a week but something is happening and he seems unhappy, what can I do" that would have shown an understanding of four year old more than.. He's rude.. Etc.