Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Rude 4 year old.

169 replies

ImFree2doasiwant · 07/12/2021 19:05

I'm at my wits end with him. Dc1 is not like it at all, never has been. Ds2 has been doted on,and somewhat indulged as a toddler, by GPS but still had the same upbringing as ds1.

DM picks both dc up from school for me 1 day a week. There is literally no way around this other than me giving up work, and being unable to pay the mortgage.

Each time, I'm getting home to find he's refused to eat dinner, has been rude, and badly behaved. He refuses to say goodbye, or days it in such an offhand unpleasant way. It's upsetting my parents, and it's upsetting me that I'm stuck in this situation.

Hes said that he wants me to pick him up. I do all drop offs and all pick ups apart from this 1

I don't know how to deal with it.

OP posts:
Thinkbiglittleone · 07/12/2021 21:28

Punishing a four year old for his behaviour is not showing him love. It’s showing an incredible lack of understanding of that four year old. It’s expecting him to make the connection hours later for behaviour his very young brain made him do.

You do understand you can do both?? You need to give them boundaries and consequences to their actions....you do not let them do as they please or you are doing them a disservice, that is not how life works or should work. You explain the consequence to a behaviour , if they carry on that consequence is implemented, then you carry on with your time together. It's a short sharp done thing, they choose their outcome and learn from it. The love and play continues.

You are showing you understand your child, you are allowing them to express themselves, talk to them and show them how to do that in a healthy way, not by being disrespectful, it's a great thing to show them as they growing up, you don't hit in anger, you don't shout at people, you don't say unkind things and you show good manners, it's just the basics they learn from being 18 months, that you start putting a consequence to as they understand right from wrong.

You will see I say the GP needs to be on the same page to implement it, so your last point of making a connection hours later is irrelevant

Original poster
ImFree2doasiwant · 07/12/2021 21:29

@Cuwins it's definitely not a forced kiss, I hated that too! But just a response to their "bye X" rather than ignoring them.

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 07/12/2021 21:30

@Thinkbiglittleone

Punishing a four year old for his behaviour is not showing him love. It’s showing an incredible lack of understanding of that four year old. It’s expecting him to make the connection hours later for behaviour his very young brain made him do.

You do understand you can do both?? You need to give them boundaries and consequences to their actions....you do not let them do as they please or you are doing them a disservice, that is not how life works or should work. You explain the consequence to a behaviour , if they carry on that consequence is implemented, then you carry on with your time together. It's a short sharp done thing, they choose their outcome and learn from it. The love and play continues.

You are showing you understand your child, you are allowing them to express themselves, talk to them and show them how to do that in a healthy way, not by being disrespectful, it's a great thing to show them as they growing up, you don't hit in anger, you don't shout at people, you don't say unkind things and you show good manners, it's just the basics they learn from being 18 months, that you start putting a consequence to as they understand right from wrong.

You will see I say the GP needs to be on the same page to implement it, so your last point of making a connection hours later is irrelevant

No, you can’t do both. You can’t love and understand your four year old, and at the same time punish him for behaviour he can’t control, especially when he won’t remember why you’re punishing him.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Behaviour & development Families
Cuwins · 07/12/2021 21:32

[quote ImFree2doasiwant]@Cuwins it's definitely not a forced kiss, I hated that too! But just a response to their "bye X" rather than ignoring them.[/quote]
I thought it probably wasn't but just thought I would put it out there.
To be fair my mum/grandparents would never have seen it as forcing, they would just have assumed that's what I would want to do and assumed I was cross if I didn't. Just different personalities I guess. Over the years my mum has got used to brief occasional hugs and I think gets me a bit more now!

Mollymalone123 · 07/12/2021 21:33

Op my youngest did this with childminder because it wasn’t me picking her up from nursery.The childminder and I woukd talk to her and got nowhere-she just wouldn’t eat-walked painfully slowly home and wouldn’t talk to the childminder.This was once a week too!
Our plan worked as in ignore it-explain your ds is hoping you will pick him up and his only way of expressing it is in being rude/grumpy.
If he eats his tea fine-if not then he doesn’t get to choose anything else-don’t rise to it.we perserved and she stopped doing it once she realised this was her new normal.He’ll come around.

Thinkbiglittleone · 07/12/2021 21:35

No, you can’t do both. You can’t love and understand your four year old, and at the same time punish him for behaviour he can’t control
That is absolutely ridiculous, Most 4 year olds can control bad manners, most can control bad behaviour, it is a choice.

They may not be able to control feelings like being sad and angry and as I have said multiple times, those feelings should be encouraged to be expressed, they need to know it's perfectly fine to feel like that and you get down to why they feel like that, then teach them how to express those feelings in a more acceptable way.

especially when he won’t remember why you’re punishing him

Again, not a valid point as that was not what I stated, again, I stated GP need to be on same page so consequence is given at point of behaviour, consistency is key with children.

Imdreamingofapeacefulxmas · 07/12/2021 21:36

Four year older children are not rude.

They can't be because they are four.

Imdreamingofapeacefulxmas · 07/12/2021 21:38

So what if something is triggering him that he doesn't understand or realise because he's four.

How can you enter into a consequence talk when bright lights or granny's perfume upset him. Or perhaps that day he has to sit next to a child who winds him up?

I can't see how he could understand your talk?

Pumperthepumper · 07/12/2021 21:40

@Thinkbiglittleone

He is old enough to know how to behave, especially when it comes to manners. He should be saying bye, thank you and please, he should be showing respect.

He needs consequences to his actions. You need to get GPS on the same page and be firm.

You take away the things he likes doing - he doesn't get to play with x toy, he doesn't get to go the place he wants, he gets taken away from the place he is in and behaving badly in.
Get a hold of it now or it will continue and grow,

No you didn’t.
readwhatiactuallysay · 07/12/2021 21:45

@Imdreamingofapeacefulxmas

Four year older children are not rude.

They can't be because they are four.

Of course 4 year olds can be rude. In our school there are lots of reception class kids that use their manners and know what's rude and not. By underestimating them its really not helping them as they grow up. By 4 manners should be well on there way and not left for teaching staff to start teaching them.

But OP, if you say its been going on for some time, maybe put some rules in place for him with you and your DM to work as a team to talk with him and explain good behaviour.

readwhatiactuallysay · 07/12/2021 21:47

If hes really sad also check theres nothing happening at school as sime things can display at home that are happening in school.

Check in with the teachers.

Original poster
ImFree2doasiwant · 07/12/2021 21:56

I am going to speak to the teachers. He says everything is fine, likes school, enjoys it, lots of friends. But yes, he is 4 and something may be bothering him that he can't explain.

OP posts:
BettyOBarley · 07/12/2021 22:02

You might find that after the Christmas break things will be better. I'm not saying it excuses being rude to your mum but I recognise so much of what you are saying in my just turned 5yr old who's just started reception. His behaviour is not good at all right now - lashing out at his sister daily for the smallest things, also telling us to shut up but then crying and saying I love you mummy in the next breath, strops over the tiniest things, refusing to eat/brush teeth/get dressed every single bloomin' day. It's very hard, but I do think they are just exhausted. My DS did almost full time nursery too but don't forget they missed a lot due to covid.
Two weeks off school might just push the reset button for you.

Thinkbiglittleone · 07/12/2021 22:04

No you didn’t.

 no I didn't what?.. @Pumperthepumper

Thinkbiglittleone · 07/12/2021 22:08

@Pumperthepumper if you mean I didn't state GPS need to be on the same page, it's right there in the quote you chose

You need to get GPS on the same page and be firm.

If you don't mean that, I'm not sure what mean by no you didnt

Pumperthepumper · 07/12/2021 22:08

@Thinkbiglittleone

No you didn’t.

 no I didn't what?.. @Pumperthepumper

They may not be able to control feelings like being sad and angry and as I have said multiple times, those feelings should be encouraged to be expressed, they need to know it's perfectly fine to feel like that and you get down to why they feel like that, then teach them how to express those feelings in a more acceptable way

You jumped straight to ‘punish him!’

Thinkbiglittleone · 07/12/2021 22:14

That is now a different quote completely you are choosing ConfusedConfusedConfused

It is giving him a consequence to a bad behaviour. And if you read I say, you need to teach them how to express themselves in a healthy way, not in a rude way.

Pumperthepumper · 07/12/2021 22:20

@Thinkbiglittleone

That is now a different quote completely you are choosing ConfusedConfusedConfused

It is giving him a consequence to a bad behaviour. And if you read I say, you need to teach them how to express themselves in a healthy way, not in a rude way.

Jesus - this is not that hard to understand. I said your advice was terrible, and it was. You then replied saying you said something different. You didn’t.

Punishing an already unhappy four year old is terrible parenting. It’s unnecessary and he won’t remember why ‘he doesn't get to play with x toy, he doesn't get to go the place he wants, he gets taken away from the place he is in and behaving badly in’. He’s unhappy, his brain is responding to that unhappiness, and you want to make him even more unhappy.

Soraya5 · 07/12/2021 22:20

I recommend ignoring the bad and praising the good. Praise all attempts at good manners with GM. I would do time out though for extreme behaviours like hitting and continuous shouting - I don’t see that as a punishment though, it’s more a demonstration to the kid of your own personal boundaries (ie I don’t let people hit me)

Also make sure you and GM are doing a lot of explaining about what is going to happen and when.

Thinkbiglittleone · 07/12/2021 22:20

There are 2 examples I have stated exactly that

You are showing you understand your child, you are allowing them to express themselves, talk to them and show them how to do that in a healthy way, not by being disrespectful, it's a great thing to show them as they growing up, you don't hit in anger, you don't shout at people, you don't say unkind things and you show good manners, it's just the basics they learn from being 18 months, that you start putting a consequence to as they understand right from wrong.

I love that people seem to think that because you lay down boundaries and consequence you don't show love, compassion and understanding - you do all of these things. You also show a child that they are allowed to feel however they want and it's good that they express those feelings, but we teach them the best way to do that and it's not by being disrespectful to people.

Pumperthepumper · 07/12/2021 22:22

@Thinkbiglittleone

There are 2 examples I have stated exactly that

You are showing you understand your child, you are allowing them to express themselves, talk to them and show them how to do that in a healthy way, not by being disrespectful, it's a great thing to show them as they growing up, you don't hit in anger, you don't shout at people, you don't say unkind things and you show good manners, it's just the basics they learn from being 18 months, that you start putting a consequence to as they understand right from wrong.

I love that people seem to think that because you lay down boundaries and consequence you don't show love, compassion and understanding - you do all of these things. You also show a child that they are allowed to feel however they want and it's good that they express those feelings, but we teach them the best way to do that and it's not by being disrespectful to people.

But your first post was:

He is old enough to know how to behave, especially when it comes to manners. He should be saying bye, thank you and please, he should be showing respect.

He needs consequences to his actions. You need to get GPS on the same page and be firm.

You take away the things he likes doing - he doesn't get to play with x toy, he doesn't get to go the place he wants, he gets taken away from the place he is in and behaving badly in.
Get a hold of it now or it will continue and grow

…….which is terrible advice.

Thinkbiglittleone · 07/12/2021 22:28

I said your advice was terrible, and it was
We disagree, setting boundaries is necessary for children this age and younger.

You then replied saying you said something different. You didn’t
I did
.
Punishing an already unhappy four year old is terrible parenting
A child needs boundaries and when mixed with love, it's good parenting.

It’s unnecessary and he won’t remember why ‘he doesn't get to play with x toy, he doesn't get to go the place he wants, he gets taken away from the place he is in and behaving badly in’. He’s unhappy, his brain is responding to that unhappiness, and you want to make him even more unhappy.

Yes he will understand, he is 4 !!! he knows, if you do that you won't get x, every 4 year old understands that. No I want to help him be less unhappy as knows the boundaries and won't keep getting told off at nanny's house for bad behaviour and bad manners that OP doesn't like because there will be consistent rules.

Pumperthepumper · 07/12/2021 22:30

@Thinkbiglittleone

I said your advice was terrible, and it was We disagree, setting boundaries is necessary for children this age and younger.

You then replied saying you said something different. You didn’t
I did
.Punishing an already unhappy four year old is terrible parenting
A child needs boundaries and when mixed with love, it's good parenting.

It’s unnecessary and he won’t remember why ‘he doesn't get to play with x toy, he doesn't get to go the place he wants, he gets taken away from the place he is in and behaving badly in’. He’s unhappy, his brain is responding to that unhappiness, and you want to make him even more unhappy.

Yes he will understand, he is 4 !!! he knows, if you do that you won't get x, every 4 year old understands that. No I want to help him be less unhappy as knows the boundaries and won't keep getting told off at nanny's house for bad behaviour and bad manners that OP doesn't like because there will be consistent rules.

No, he won’t. He won’t make the connection that ‘not saying goodbye’ means hours later ‘no favourite toy’.
Pumperthepumper · 07/12/2021 22:31

@Thinkbiglittleone

I said your advice was terrible, and it was We disagree, setting boundaries is necessary for children this age and younger.

You then replied saying you said something different. You didn’t
I did
.Punishing an already unhappy four year old is terrible parenting
A child needs boundaries and when mixed with love, it's good parenting.

It’s unnecessary and he won’t remember why ‘he doesn't get to play with x toy, he doesn't get to go the place he wants, he gets taken away from the place he is in and behaving badly in’. He’s unhappy, his brain is responding to that unhappiness, and you want to make him even more unhappy.

Yes he will understand, he is 4 !!! he knows, if you do that you won't get x, every 4 year old understands that. No I want to help him be less unhappy as knows the boundaries and won't keep getting told off at nanny's house for bad behaviour and bad manners that OP doesn't like because there will be consistent rules.

And it’s still a punishment for something he can’t control. It’s a negative reinforcement, not a positive one.
Thinkbiglittleone · 07/12/2021 22:31

No, he won’t. He won’t make the connection that ‘not saying goodbye’ means hours later ‘no favourite toy’.

Why is it hour later ? It's done there and then ?